How To Get Out Of Boot Camp (And MCT/SOI)

how to get out of bootcamp2

Here at, we’ve fairly commonly had the parents, spouses, girlfriends/boyfriends, etc. of a Recruit that is currently in Boot Camp come on the site asking something to the effect of: “My [Family Member/Significant Other] went to boot camp, but something happened and now he or she really just wants out. Is there anything he or she can do to get out of boot camp and the marine corps and come home?” My answer to the Recruits who want out of the marine corps is “Yes. You most likely still qualify for an Entry-Level Separation.” That being said, getting an Entry-Level Separation isn’t quite as easy or convenient as it would’ve been if you had decided to withdraw from the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) instead.

[NOTE: The advice given in this article is geared specifically to marine corps recruits. Please note that – while marines in MCT/SOI may still be in Entry Level Status – there is no provision that guarantees an Entry Level Separation for marines in MCT/SOI. That being said, the worst type of discharge that could be received for refusal to train would be an Other Than Honorable (OTH) Discharge. An OTH will have virtually no impact on your civilian life, except that an OTH may make it more difficult for you to get a job with the federal government.]

First of all, before we get too deep into discussion, it’s important to determine whether or not you actually qualify for an Entry-Level Separation. Paragraph 6002, Section 7, of the Marine Corps Separations Manual  lays out the qualifications for “Entry-Level Status” in the Marine Corps as follows:

  • For Active Duty, “a member qualifies for entry-level status during the first 180 days of continuous active military service”. This means that, from the day a recruit arrives at boot camp, he or she is in “Entry-Level Status” for the next 180 days.
  • For Reservists, entry-level status is slightly more complicated, but in general it terminates after being called to Active Duty “for one continuous period of 180 days or more”.

If you’ve been in for longer than 180 days, unfortunately you no longer qualify for Entry-Level Separation. At this point the best advice I can give is to tell you to try to make it through your enlistment as best you can, come visit the Anonymous Discussion page at whenever you need to vent, never be afraid to contact mental health if need be, and claim every benefit you deserve when you finally do get out.

Now then, if you have NOT yet been in for 180 days, then you still have hope for an Entry-Level Separation. Paragraph 6205 (Pages 187 – 188) of the Separations Manual states that “A member may be separated while in an entry level status, if the member is unqualified for further service by reason of entry level performance and/or conduct, as evidenced by incapability, lack of reasonable effort, failure to adapt to the Marine Corps environment, or minor disciplinary infractions.” The order goes on to state that “all personnel administratively separated from recruit training will be processed under this reason except in those limited cases where processing under a more serious basis is appropriate and where discharge characterization under other than honorable conditions is warranted.” This effectively means that, if you’re separated from boot camp, you will receive an Entry-Level Separation, so long as you don’t do anything that causes significant injury to another person (i.e. start a fist-fight with another Recruit in an effort to get kicked out).

Note: A fuller list of situations that warrant an “Other Than Honorable” (OTH) Discharge can be found on Page 25 of the Separations Manual. However, it’s important to note that almost NONE of the listed situations could possibly apply to a Recruit.


Alright, now that we’ve gotten past all of the paperwork, it’s time to get to the real question: How does this affect me? How do I use this to get out of Boot Camp?

Quite contrary to what you and every recruit since the dawn of boot camp has been told, You Can Quit. It’s not quite as easy as quitting the DEP, and it requires some commitment, but if you’re serious about getting out of boot camp and the Marine Corps, a few days of hardship should be worth getting 4 years of your life back. The following is a very basic outline of how to go about quitting. Bear in mind that individual experiences may vary, and you may need to adapt your approach to meet your current situation.

Step 1: Get in the proper mindset. Odds are you’ve spent the past few weeks referring to yourself as “This Recruit”, doing anything and everything that you’re told out of fear of being screamed at, being taken for “Incentive Training” (I.T.) or (the ultimate Drill Instructor threat) being “dropped” or “recycled” to a different recruit company to repeat some aspect of training. The first thing you need to do is get out of that mindset.

  1. Remember that these Drill Instructors (D.I.s) are just people, just like you. They’re not anything special. Look them in the eye when you speak to them, refer to yourself in the first person, and don’t call them “sir/ma’am” or acknowledge their rank in any way. These things will take away your D.I.s sense of control over you.
  2. When your D.I.s start yelling and screaming, take a moment to realize just how stupid they look. Odds are, they look like a complete idiot and – in the correct mindset – you may find it very hard not to laugh at your D.I.s.
  3. Realize that you don’t need to be worried about I.T. If you don’t want to be taken for I.T. all you have to do is not go. If your D.I. says “get on the Quarterdeck!” All you have to do is smile and say is “No, I don’t really feel like it right now, but thank you for the offer.” What are they gonna do? Scream? Threaten you with I.T.? If you’re in the correct mindset, all of their threats are completely empty.
  4. Sure you might get dropped back in training (It’s actually very unlikely, but it’s still possible) but really, if you’re in a mindset where you’ve rendered all of the D.I.s threats to be completely harmless, what can they do? About the only thing they can really do is drop you into the Recruit Separation Platoon (RSP), which is where you want to be anyway.

Step 2: When you have made up your mind, and you’ve reached the mindset where the D.I.s have nothing to threaten you with, take a seat on your footlocker, put your feet up, and relax. Of course your D.I.s won’t take kindly to this, they’ll likely start out by screaming, just look them in the eye, and smile. If their screaming becomes annoying, you may choose to taunt them, saying something like “Come on! Is that all the louder you can scream? My Grandmother yells louder than that!” Taunts of this nature should be used in moderation, but when used skillfully, they will not only show the D.I.s that their screams are ineffective, but will also put you in a position of control as the D.I.s have to decide to either stop screaming or to give in to your taunts and scream louder on your command. Either way, you win.

From here, your D.I.s will likely try to figure out why you’re doing what you’re doing. They’ll still be shouting, but they’ll ask “What are you doing?” or some similar question. Simply tell them “I quit. I don’t want to be a marine anymore, so I quit”. They’ll tell you “You can’t quit! You signed the contract… etc. etc.” respond “Too bad, I already quit.” Stand your ground, don’t let them intimidate you with their empty threats, and you will eventually win.

Note: It is possible that your D.I.s may try to punish other Recruits in an attempt to break you. They may start to I.T. a group of Recruits and tell them that the I.T. session will not end until you join in. This approach is particularly useful to D.I.s because it allows them to make you feel responsible for the suffering of other Recruits who didn’t do anything to deserve punishment. Your D.I.s will almost definitely allow the other Recruits to yell at you, pleading with you to join in the I.T. session so that it will stop. Continue to resist. Remind the Recruits that you’re not forcing them to do anything, and that if they want the session to stop, all they have to do is get up and leave. If you can successfully resist this tactic, it will work to your advantage in a couple of ways:

  1. It will reinforce to your D.I.s that you are determined to not continue with boot camp, and they cannot break you.
  2. The MCRD San Diego I.T. Card specifically states that “IT will never be assigned to a unit as a result of one recruit’s actions”, and the MCRD Parris Island I.T. Card states that “S.D.I.s may IT the whole platoon only as a response to the deficiencies of the platoon as a whole.” Thus,  by assigning I.T. to a group as a result of your actions, your D.I.s are in violation of a direct order and you will be able to use this as ammunition against them when your D.I.s send you to talk to your Company or Series Commander.

Step 3: After a day or two of continuous resistance, your D.I.s will most likely send you to speak to either your Company or Series Commander. It’s important that you keep up your mindset, don’t stand at attention, don’t salute, don’t address the Commander as sir or ma’am. That being said, if your Commander speaks to you in a courteous, respectful manner, then speak to your Commander with similar courtesy. Your Commander will probably ask you why you’re behaving as you are, why you don’t want to be a marine anymore, and may even offer to make some changes if you will resume training. Decline his or her offers, and continue to resist. Within a few days after this meeting you will most likely be dropped to Recruit Separations Platoon (RSP).

Once you’ve made it to RSP you can afford to relax a little bit. At this point you know you’re being processed for discharge, so you can afford to act like a “good recruit” and say your “yes sirs” etc. just to make your life a little bit easier. You can expect to spend at least 2 weeks in RSP, and possibly quite a bit longer, but once you get out you will be out of the marine corps for good, so the few weeks of RSP should be well worth it.


If you wish to verify this answer for yourself, the relevant information regarding Entry-Level Separation can be found on pages 172, 187, and 188 of Marine Corps Order (MCO) P1900.16F.

Additional information on Entry-Level Separation from the marine corps can be found at the “GI Rights Hotline” Website.

Safety and Peace


  • Joer Asswwq

    I went through bootcamp in 09 I unfortunately didnt end up graduating with my platoon due to an injury during boot(but did graduate with another platoon). In my experience in boot threre were people who really shouldn’t have graduated bootcamp, as in not Marine Corps materiel, and there were people who should’ve graduated.

  • reallynow

    An OTH doesn’t do shit to you, and the civilian world is so much better without the corpse. Believe me when I say that a lot of us were once in your position and now live happier more peaceful lives as a result of leaving this turgid wasteful standing ARMY. Do not let your command mess with you, if you want out, you will get out, you deserve it. You are human after all.

  • recruit_girlfriend

    I’ve got a question for you all. My boyfriend is currently in bootcamp and is wanting out. He was in MRP for a few weeks for injuring himself pulling a muscle in his back the second day in training and just got out into a new platoon. When he first wrote me, he said he made a big mistake and was wanting to come home. I kept writing him and encouraging him because he has been preparing for this for years, since he was younger. He found motivation back and was happy to get back to training. Out of the blue, his recruiter calls me and tells me he is wanting to quit. Later, his grandpa calls me and he had a discussion with him and he was very presistant on wanting out. His last words to him was “This recruit is done sir.”. We haven’t yet figured out why he wanted to quit all of a sudden when he liked his DIs and we had family plans, marriage, etc. after his bootcamp he was so excited about. He said he was staying in no matter what for me and his future. Now, if he is waiting to get sent home and changes his mind to train, is their any way possible he could get back in? Or is he done for good?

    • VssVintorez

      Depends. They’ll most likely try to convince him to continue, and if he decides to he most likely will. It just depends on how far he has gone into the getting out process, but once he is out, he most likely will not be able to go back. If he is still in and just waiting to heal/make a decision, then he will most likely be dropped into a different training platoon.

      • recruit_girlfriend

        Thank you. He just got out of MRP which he got dropped into from his original platoon. He got picked back up from a different company and platoon a few days ago. Yesterday we got the phone call that he wanted to quit. If he gets our letters in about 3 or 4 days and decides to stay then, could he? Or is that too late?

        • NINJA_PUNCH

          That depends. Boot Camp is notoriously difficult to quit. If the command can find a way to force someone through, they’ll do it. So I’d say the odds are pretty good that he’d be able to stay in boot camp if he change his mind.

          I guess my only question for you is, if he wants to quit, and has already injured himself, why would you write a letter trying to convince him to stay? I think if I were in his situation, I’d want to know that there’s somebody who’s going to have my back.

          • VssVintorez

            True. If he wants to quit now, it doesn’t get any better. Sure, the entire environment changes, but I was actually motivated throughout bootcamp, it was at SOI that I finally realized how moronic the Corps was. It is better to get out without repercussions now than to wait.

          • recruit_girlfriend

            He pulled a muscle in his back, but it wasn’t very major. He healed up quickly and kept writing me how he was excited to stay in and continue to train. He said he verbally fought with the doctor when they wouldn’t release him because he wanted to go back into training. It’s just floored me because he was so pumped up and excited then a couple days later it was like bam, he wants out. I wrote him and asked him to make sure that’s what he wants, I support his decision either way. The Marine branch may not be the right one for him. Sometimes he is easily persuaded so I didn’t know if someone else said something to him that made him change his mind. I just reminded him to think for himself and be sure in his decisions.

          • recruit_girlfriend

            By the way, thanks for your input guys! It helps a lot!

  • ProudMarine

    WTF? This page is a dishonor to every Marine that sucked it up and earned the title. Giving up is for pussies and fags. I can only imagine the amount of dicks the webmaster must suck on a daily basis. If your son, daughter, husband, or boyfriend is in boot, encourage them to earn the title of Marine.

    • FailedToAdapt

      What is your authority to speak for every marine? Have you personally polled every marine his/her view?

      If you did, congratulations to you! That is staggering work requiring a lot of manpower and other resources.

      Also, no need to invoke the term “fags”. Many gays have done their duty “openly” or silently to fulfill their obligation. Gays are just as capable as you. Their sexual preference is irrelevant to their abilities.

      ” If your son, daughter, husband, or boyfriend is in boot, encourage them to stand up for themselves”

      ^ Fixed that for you. Self-respect requires that a person does not others mistreat them. Self-respect is required for strong individuals. Seems a lot of marines find it noble to allow others abuse them in the name of “not being a bitch”. It’s funny because on the outside many find the zealous marine subservience to the epitome of “being a bitch”. Of course, I don’t speak for everyone.

      With that said ProudMarine, have a fine day.


      Oh please. The “title” of “marine” isn’t earned, it’s given. You can sluff off and put out about 10% all through boot camp, you can fail every requirement twice, and just barely pass the third time, and still graduate.

      The guy who was one bunk to my right did that all through boot camp. He hoped that if just sluffed off enough, they would separate him, and told me as much. The D.I.s ordered him to sickbay to get put on light duty so he couldn’t do Initial or Final drill, they falsified his MCMAP scorecard to make him pass… the D.I.s literally went out of their way (I dare say, above and beyond the call of duty) to make him graduate. About the only thing that he did by himself was run a PFT. He was by far, the fastest one in the company. While most of us were still running to the halfway point, we’d see him running back, smiling, snapping his fingers, and doing a little dance while running. He did that specifically to piss off the D.I.s because he knew that they couldn’t catch him. This same guy did the same thing at MCT. He graduated from there too.

      Bearing all of this in mind, how can you say that you have to “earn the title” when no amount of sluffing off is sufficient for them to deny it to you? When standing up, putting your foot down, and actively deciding to stop, is harder than graduating, the only logical conclusion is that the “title” is given out like candy.

      By the way, just so you know, this page is owned, operated, and primarily used, by current and former marines, many of whom have been on at least one combat deployment. We’ll decide if this page is a dishonor to us or not, thank you.

      Safety and Peace

      • madmike

        I had a guy in my plt at Parris Island hang himself in the bath room. He was completely unconscious when the fire watch found him and the only thing that saved his life was the junior D.I. doing CPR on him. And that recruit still graduated. So even unsuccessfully trying to kill yourself isn’t enough to make you fail. He “earned” the title Marine with me and the rest of my fellow recruits…including the 2 drug dealers from Boston who later got arrested for murder while stationed in Subic Bay.

        • Dee

          That is truly depressing! Seriously… are they (the D.I.’s) crazy???

          • Devil Dawg 223

            The DI saved his life. They work hard and its a12 week psych test. But commitments and fighting through tough times is something alot of these whiners are taking about. Agree 100%/its not for everyone nir should it be just like any job or life itself. Everyone knows the Marines is the longest and toughest bootcsmp/basic. So its def hard and brutal.

    • madmike

      Almost everyone here did not give up. I did the 4 years as a grunt and got out with a honorable. But just because we did it does not mean we liked it. P.S. Taking it like a Marine in the corps means taking it like a bitch everywhere else on the planet.

  • armyHeliMech

    I have a brother who is at his unit but now wants out. Is there options available for him?

    • Master LCpl

      If he has been in for less than 180 days he could possibly get an Entry Level Separation. Read the above post for more info.

  • ha

    Lil bitches that can’t make the cut. Why the fuck did you enlist in the first place if you were going to quit? I bet your an “upstanding” citizen rofl. Losers.

    • S.

      A shining example or how marines treat others. Brave my ass.

      • Master LCpl

        Probably some motard SNCO.

        • ohreally

          Is there even a need to qualify that statement with “probably”?

          • Master LCpl

            Your right. I stand corrected. A motard SNCO that got his feelings hurt because we dare to say things about HIS beloved corps.

          • ohreally

            Fuck calling it his beloved corpse. It’s his glorious Department of the Navy. Not even a branch for Christ’s sakes.

  • Nadia

    My boyfriend had a black out and he was sent to pysch ward from friday and was discharged from the hospital unit tuesday…He said he probably will be coming home..but will have to go to base first. and at the hospital they said 99.9 percent time they say anyone referred there for a evaluation needs to be discharged..well anyways Now im at thursday and he wont be able to call im i supposed to wait for something to there a way i can find out where he is now and what is going to happen?

  • Nadia

    Does being admitted to pysch ward during boot camp automatically mean you will be discharged? or is there a chance you will be back to your i know he wants to come home i just dont know how to find out

    • ohreally

      Chances are he will come home if he has medical issues, including mental ones, which unlike what the Marine Corps thinks actually exist.

      • Nadia

        marine corp sucks Thank God Im hoping he gets back asap cause i really dont want to deal with this crap and the lame bitches on the marine support groups Lmaoooo

    • RecruitMom

      My son did. He was in hospital just long enough to determine that he could come home, then in separation platoon for 2 weeks. He saw a guy with broken limbs who couldn’t leave until his medical treatment was concluded, and it was going to be a while.
      My son wonders if anyone get slammed with medical bills from MCRD?

  • Nadia

    how long were you in RSP for, this is exactly whats going on with my boyfri

    • Nadia

      Boyfriend#, he basically said he quit and fuck this and then they got mad and he said I rather fucking die then spend another day here cause he was pist ehh and they took it seriously and sent him to pysch ward frm saturday to tuesday and now im wondering where he is and whats going on!?

      • Word

        He’ll either be processed out, or they’ll try to convince him to keep going through with it. Since you’re not family, you’ll just have to wait for a response, as unhelpful as that sounds.

  • RecruitMom

    My son received a discharge from MCRD. He had to go through separation platoon for 2 weeks first, then was sent home. Since coming home he received first a small paycheck and later an even smaller paycheck for his time at MCRD. His pay stub looks like he should have received another third paycheck for twice the amount of the first of the paychecks, but today he received a letter from the Marine Corps that he had to reimburse an overpayment (half the paycheck). Now he is worried that they will send another bill for him to return the money that they never paid him. That amount shows on his pay stub, but he hasn’t seen it. He wants to attend trade school. Is this a common thing? That they send you a bill after you get home for “overpayment”?

    • ohreally

      It can happen sometimes because of clerical errors, some admin Marine somewhere probably gave your son too much money and now the Marine Corps wants it back, even if he spent it already…… But don’t worry trillions can still be spent on the osprey, the f-22, the f-35, and abrams tanks.

  • 2XUSMC

    I find it ironic that there are so many people on here that have such animosity towards the Corps. It is hard when you get injured during recruit training to return to training and be successful. Sometimes it depends on the drive that the recruit has to finish, and the motovation they are able to maintain during their time at MRP. There is no shame in quitting, if its not for you its not for you. It depends on the person, if quitting and not returning to training, refusing to train while in recuit training, or just opting out is something you can live with then do what you want. There are some aspects of the Corps that suck, but there are also some aspects in everything you do that sucks. Show me a person that has 100% job satisfaction, it doesn’t exist. The problem with Marines that were recruited betewen 2002-2011 is that the Marines opened up there standards to previously ineligible recruits. This caused a lot of people to become Marines like the so claimed people on this site, that previously wouldn’t have done it. They former Marines that complain about the Marine Corps should never have become Marines. They made a mistake, and now they look at their time spent in the Corps as a mistake. Well, suck it up, you served your time and now move on and quit your bitching…

    • madmike1968

      What’s wrong with trying to make the service a better place? Why can’t we call a spade a spade and make a military that performs as advertised? if everyone was like you problems wouldn’t get fixed, improvements would never be made and we’d still be carrying bolt action rifles.

      • 2XUSMC

        We are making it a better place…instead of having over 200,000 Marines, we are cutting it to 183,000. This will weed out those that snuck in when the USMC expanded their standards or those that can’t compete in the current standards. I agree it should be a better place, and the Marine Corps has evolved since my first enlistment in 97, but I wouldn’t say for the better.

        • JoeB

          As a taxpayer that’s 100% fine with me ( shame the cuts aren’t deeper)- I’m just wondering though does that include all the females that can’t do more than 3 pull ups, or will such groups be untouchable because the Suck wants to be gender diverse, culturally sensitive and maintain racial quotas? I got no problem watching females get slaughtered on a future battlefield!

          • 2XUSMC

            The female pullup standard when it is implemented which starts this year for certain combat jobs that were just opened to females is 2. The reason that they haven’t implemented female pullups yet is because they haven’t established a method of how to tie that physical training into their recruit training regimen.

          • Don’t support dumb laws

            The MCO was supposed to be policy in Feb. 2014 but 46% of females recruits can’t even meet the minimum 3 pull ups. There was talk of the order about 2 yrs prior.

            There are fucking pull up bars in both recruiting depots. The flex arm hang is so easy- as long as you have working arms you can get 90-100% easily. If you don’t have a pull up bar, do push ups. If there are lack of pull up bars, do push ups. I did push ups for a year and still got 19-20 pull ups and I touched the pull up bar only twice. The chief reason was to maintain the female quota-this came from HQMC.

            You cannot tell me a depot filled with drill instructors, martial arts instructors and instructor trainers advise HQMC against this MCO order because it has not been established how making females do the pull ups is gonna through off the recruit training regimen. They added the CFT with no issues.

          • ohreally

            “they haven’t established a method of how to tie that physical training into their recruit training regimen.”

            Oh I don’t know, making them do pullups? Or negative pullups and pushups if they can’t do a pullup?

        • Don’t support dumb laws

          Not really. Hazing was less common but it’s still the same stuff. They get rid of the good Marines and continue the cycle of high turnover rates. And women are still allowed to have lower physical standards despite the order to make them do pull ups. Why? 46% of female recruits couldn’t meet the 3 pull up standard and the Corps thought this order is detrimental. Also 1997 was when females were finally required to attend MCT.

          • ohreally

            “Also 1997 was when females were finally required to attend MCT.”

            You know what? When I first read that I ****ing laughed out loud in amazement. I really could not believe what you typed out on the screen. But then I looked it up for myself, and yup, before 1997 female Marines would just go straight to their MOS schools after recruit training. ****ing **** is the Marine Corpse stupid. Did the chain of command have to wait until females started *dying* in the War on Terror to get them training for *combat*? What the hell? Are these idiots in our leadership supposed to keep us alive or something? What the ****ing **** man, what the ****? I really am flabbergasted, I really am.

          • Don’t support dumb laws

            I used to work at a veterans service office as a clerk. I talk to different era Marine veterans from Vietnam, onwards. You learn about different stuff they experienced. I spoke to a Marine who served in the 1990’s through 2000’s. It just happens that he works in ITB as an instructor and knows about SOI’s training requirements then. Also any Marine who served before 1997 would know this too. I have no idea why they did this. Probably because they didn’t think females needed to know more advanced skills because they were banned from direct combat anyways.

        • S.

          WE are making it a better place. Instead of sugar coating the corps, we point out the problems it has so those who want to join can make more informed decisions, and those who join/stay in anyways have a chance to contribute to it’s future. It’s the people from my time in (2006-2010), the “why generation”, that are making a difference. Those who stay in can do what they can to unfuck the shit leadership from before, and people like me, who got out and have the balls to build a website like this, spread the truth to those on the outside by the millions.

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        • ohreally

          Hey, how about we have zero Marines and then that way this country can only have ONE Army instead of the two it has now? Then after that we could get to work on the two navys we have (Coast Guard and Navy) and the three Air Forces we have as well ( Air Force, Navy, Marines). Wait, I take that back, once we get rid of the Maween Bureaucracy we would only have two air forces, but still have two departments of defense (DOD and DHS). And don’t get me started on the Ospyrey, the F-22, F-35, and the littoral ship…….

    • Joe B

      Oh Shut the Fuck Up you moron! It obvious that you are too stupid to actually read the extensive content on this site, and see that the majority of the contributors were good Marines who excelled in all the metrics that defines an above average Marine, but just got fed up with the maltreatment, inefficient bureaucracy, and sheer stupidity that comes with an enlistment contract!!
      Please give us solid proof that a recruit that joined in 2004 was subject to lesser standards than one who joined in say 1998? And why is it that the Marines will not allow a recruit to quit so easily if they make the intelligent and rational decision that they don’t want to waste the next 3 1/2 years of their lives being an indentured slave? If the USMC were truly an elite organization it would allow an expeditious and efficient out-processing just like any business would. But no- it needs the low paid slaves in order to operate!!
      And Fuck You! This site has existed for awhile and is not going away, and had it existed when I was considering joining it would have changed my mind pretty quickly! There are far better things that young men can pursue in life that be a Marine- at the very least we can deny the USMC some potential quality recruits because they are better informed! Only the idiots will join and only the idiots end up re enlisting!
      So ‘suck it up’ motard!

      • 2XUSMC

        First of all the proof in the standards being lowered during the influx of Marines from 2002-2011 was the increase of waiver traffic at HQMC. Check out the Marine Corps Enlistment Processing Manual and you will see what type of waiver is required for certain moral offenses, education levels, and tattoo waivers. During that time the Marine Corps approved more waivers for drug use, dependents, GED, and other qualifications that prior to and since then have become almost non-existent. You guys on this site can suck it, making over 50 grand a year, plus full benefits, for working a 9-5 type job is great.
        You say wasting 3 1/2 years of your life….Did you get out and go to school? Find a job that pays more, open a business, what did you do? Or are you just wasting your life now? The problem with some Marines is that they can’t play the game, treat like a job not a lifestyle. Do what you need to do and go home. You are brought up in this liberal society thinking that you are owed something, when the government doesn’t owe you shit, neither does the Corps, so wow you have to earn it.Instead you discourage a kid who doesn’t want the Air Force because they are lazy, nor the Army cause they are fat and out of shape, or the Navy cause they don’t want to spend four years on a ship. These are all generalizations just like you are generalizing the Marine Corps…

        • Joe B

          Oh- do we have our panties in a knot? Waivers were granted in the late 90’s, but its a no brainer that if you end up starting a stupid and unnecessary war in the Middle East that you need more bodies to fight it ,then suddenly stupid, petty and superficial regulations regarding tattoos don’t become so important?

          Not that its really any of your fucking business, but after leaving the USMC I earned a college degree and have worked for civilian companies where I have made decent money, and basically not have to put up with some the ridiculous, petty and childish rules that the USMC imposes on you.

          I love this right wing ” liberal society thinking that you are owed something, when the government doesn’t owe you shit,” REALLY? then why does the government ( and the DoD) think that it rates to take a portion of my earnings in excessive taxes then spend it irresponsibly ( see unnecessary war above)? If I’m going to fork over my hard earned money to the government, then damned right it OWES ME SOMETHING! ( for one thing, I’m tired of subsidizing free health care for the military!)

          And who are you to imply that I did not work when I was in the Marine Corps? And you should actually bother to read the experiences of other people here to show that hard work does not get rewarded so well in that organization!
          And your stupid generalizations about ‘kids’ and their lack of work ethic is way off the mark, plus your detrimental implications about other branches of the Armed Forces. I would encourage young men to explore the opportunities the Air Force, Army and Navy had to offer, because at least they know how to treat their people more professionally.
          Treat it like a job and not a lifestyle? Hell- the Marine Corps discourages that line of thinking in its attempt to have 24 hour control over you!
          Anything else?

          • 2XUSMC

            Good for you, you used what you earned in the Marine Corps, unless you payed for it all by yourself and didn’t use the GI Bill … I earned my degree while still in the Corps and I am almost finished with my Masters. Health Care benefits in the military are just like any other business that offers perks to its employees. So thanks for the contribution towards my well being.
            It wasn’t only tattoo waivers that were expanded it was everything. Moral and conduct before joining the USMC and during your enlistment were no big deal. A Marine could get a DUI and still be able to reenlist… I actually agree with you that kids should check out each branch before they decide where they want to enlist, but I disagree that some services treat their people more professionally, I think its all the same bullshit that everyone complains about just a different uniform. The marine 24/7 is just a way to demonstrate that if you have to work late then you shouldn’t bitch. I think a lot of it has to do with immaturity of its members.

          • Joe B

            “I think a lot of it has to do with immaturity of its members.”
            I can use that argument for most of the senior SNCO’s and some Officers I saw, who didn’t put a lot of thought into proper allocation of manpower, work and time since they knew they could get away with being stupid!!
            There is no incentive for them to make proper use of time, money or manpower since they have a guaranteed government job!
            So what fucking point are you trying to make? People get DUI’s in civilian jobs and don’t get fired from them. And I always shook my head at the logic of training people to be killers on the battlefield, but punishing them if they weren’t sensitive or considerate enough to a certain minority group?
            So I will continue to criticize the Marine Corps at my leisure, pointing out all its stupidity and absurdity, glad to be out of its reach when it needs bodies for its next dumb war!

          • JD

            JoeB = Loser (who’s just angry at his stupid decisions and wants to vent here)

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            JD = Bad ass who responds to a 3 month old post online with an ad hominem attack. Is that really all you have to add to the discussion JD? It’s not much, but I’ll bet it makes you feel good to write it.

          • Joe B

            JD= Loser Internet Troll bitch who I doubt is in much of a position to judge others.
            Probably just another Marine who can’t handle any criticism of his Corps. Happy to throw out insults at others but can’t take any himself.

  • fuckthemarinecorpsdon’tenlist

    I suggest getting out of boot camp while you can. You’re not missing out on anything that cool. Fuck what everybody thinks. I wished I would done the same thing and got out in boot camp. No but I decided to ride out my 4 years, do my time and got a honorable discharge. My 4 years was complete waste of time, went Iraq and Afghanistan to “help” people who don’t want you there and are trying to kill you for obvious reasons. A lot people say its honorable to serve, but I say its really a waste of time in this day and age. And I had a shitty ass fuck chain of command my whole enlistment and as many other marines did too. I was a descent motivated marine never once got in trouble. I wasn’t asking for special treatment, just to be treated like a human being. The day I got my DD214 I burned all my cammies and dress uniforms in a bonfire and left 29 Palms. These days I highly discourage anybody from joining the Marine Corps. Also know a couple fellow marines who went to the Army after their enlistment and loved it so much that they decided to make it career now.

    Before anybody decides to join the Marine Corps at least watch this video at minimum.

    • Don’t support dumb laws

      It’s really hard to get dropped from boot camp now a days. We had a shitbag of a recruit that got caught sleeping on firewatch on many occasions: from 1st to 3rd phase. He still graduated.
      In my time, retirement ceremonies are the worst. They take too long and I’d rather police call than stand in formation, lol.

  • minndful

    I need help for my son he is a recruit at san diego and tied hurting himself.they told hom he was not getting discharged what can i do?

    • Master LCpl

      Print a copy of this page & send it to him. Its not easy to quit but it can be done & will take some time and effort on his part.

    • minndful

      Thank you for your help, may god bring you blessings for helping a mother in need. They have made my son feel like a failure but i commend him for knowing his limits. He was just not a fit and tht is ok. Thank you so much for your help!

      • Master LCpl

        Not a problem. Let us know if your son needs further assistance. Reiterate to him not to do anything stupid like get physical with a DI or other recruit. Let him know that them saying things like dishonorable discharge are just to scare him. Tell him stay calm, stand your ground, & eventually they will give up and process him out.

        • Gil Smith


          • NINJA_PUNCH

            There’s no such rank as “Master LCpl”??? Woah! I had no idea… . I bet in your mind there’s no such thing as inside jokes among lower enlisted’s either, right?

            You know that the draft doesn’t exist anymore, right? It’s kind of hard to “dodge” something that doesn’t exist. Judging by your photo, you’ve been out for a while, so I don’t want to make any unwarranted assumptions, but just so you know: The draft doesn’t exist.

            Also, just an “FYI”, there appears to be something wrong with your keyboard… either the “Shift” key is stuck, or the “Caps Lock” is on. Either way, you might want to fix that, it kind of makes you look like an idiot.

          • S.

            I like your made up HTML tag.

          • Master LCpl

            OK, for Gil who seems to have changed it to Bob Comp, let’s have a little fun. I think I’ll call this LCpl first class

          • S.

            My favorite rank.

          • Master LCpl

            Or how about THE Lance Corporal of the Marine Corps.

          • S.

            Too much responsibility. Anything between lance first class and lance cpl of the corps is a no go for me.

          • LilLadyLadybuh

            Go home, Bob. You’re not fit to interwebz today.

          • No Internet for Old Men

            Mr. Gil Smith, if you are going to talk shit on the internet, the least you can do is not attach your fucking facebook page to your comment profile… Fucking moron.


            Is your ONE friend Alan as stupid as you?


            Shall I post your address?

          • No Internet for Old Men

            Here is a comment from his facebook profile

            “HERE WE GO…AGAIN! The niggers are rioting in missouri because a black piece of criminal shit got shot robbing a store! ALWAYS NIGGERS! WHEN IS THE LAST TIME A WHITE MOB RIOTED AND LOOTED? These sub-human sub- animals USE ANY REASON TO ROB AND LOOT! BLACKS(your word, not mine!) are as bad as the muslim bunch and need to be rounded up like the mad scum they are and sent back to AFRICA!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I’M TIRED OF SEEING THE NEWS LOADED WITH BLACK CRIMINALS EVERY DAM DAY! GET RID OF THESE FILTHY SCUM! IT’S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE YOU……….ARE THEIR NEXT VICTIM!!!”

            Gil Smith is a racist piece of shit. Moving on.

          • S.

            I reported his profile as racist and it looks like facebook scanned his profile and deleted it! haha

          • Knob_Gaudy

            This is the funniest shit to attack this site ever! LOL

      • Master LCpl

        I also suggest you copy & paste this page into small but readable text & print front & back because a thick envelope will make the DIs suspicious & they could try make him open it in their presence. If that happens & they see he has step by step instructions on quitting, well, you can just imagine.

    • Gil Smith


      • S.

        You do know we use your comments to our advantage and use you as an example, right?

      • S.

        I bet most the people here could paralyze you in 30 seconds.

    • Chose_Wrong_Branch

      Hi minndful, I don’t know for sure how long the process is for that, but I do know it varies from recruit to recruit bases. If he has demonstrated any suicidal thoughts or actions they will send him for a psych eval. Remember, no matter what they tell your recruit, they generally don’t want someone there who doesn’t want to be there but it doesn’t mean they won’t tell him otherwise to see if he is faking the problem. If they determine that it is genuine, the Dr. will inform the Command and the separation process will be initiated. Discharge characterization, classification and how much time he is there after sep. is started, really depend on the Command and what the Dr. recommended. I pray that you are able to find out more info and that your son be returned safely home. “People will often try to make you feel guilty in order to manipulate you into doing what they want, but If you know who YOU are and trust in yourself and know that you are doing the right thing for you then guilt won’t work. Stand strong for who you are and don’t be drawn into games that other people play!” Words for your son! Stay strong mom/dad!

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  • Gil Smith


  • Gil Smith


    • Master LCpl

      Thanks for the compliment Gil. Do you feel better now that you have vented? You must be a lifer. This site is not going anywhere so deal with it. Also can you please answer a question. Don’t think too hard. If the corps is so great, why then do nearly 70% (that would be 70 out of 100. Breaking it down barney style for ya) serve one enlistment and get the F out? As for my “rank” no sh*t there’s no MLCpl. Just having a little fun with photo shop. Again, if you don’t like this site, go pound sand.

    • Older Marine Vet

      I’m not anti Marine Corps- just an intelligent person who recognizes the fact that the USMC has a lot of problems which it needs to confront.
      The Marine Corps can be small and professional enough to allow those who don’t want to be a part of it to exit without having to go through a lot of unnecessary harassment, which does neither party any good.
      As an educated person, I know for a fact that there are plenty of other places to live outside the United States which have never needed the USMC for protection, have a good quality of life, and don’t owe their national survival to a bloated military!
      I respect the fact that your are proud that you were once a Marine, but In your case I don’t think I would get the same level of civility in return.

    • LilLadyLadybuh

      Bob, that attitude isn’t doing anyone a damn bit of good. What makes the United States great is that it is made up of all different groups of people who cohabitate peacefully to build this country up. What makes the United States suck is that there are way too many people with the same mentality you are displaying, essentially, “Think like me or GTFO”. All that attitude does is hinder progress.

      And by the by, this is coming from a 26-year-old Marine Corps veteran, wife, and mother. I was discharged honorably as a Corporal after four years of service. If you have anything to say, I would love to hear it.

      • S.


    • Master LCpl

      Another post by Gil Smith AKA Bob Comp. Again, if you’re going to talk shit, don’t be so foolish to attach your Facebook page to your comments. Also, Ninja pointed out earlier that either your “shift” key is stuck or your “caps lock” is on. You need to fix that.

  • Chose_Wrong_Branch

    What advice do you have for someone who feels like they made a mistake in the branch of service they signed up for? Son is in boot now but just going through the motions getting more depressed. Original plan was army but allowed himself to hyped up for something he really didn’t care about. He would still like to serve just not as a marine. Is there a way/discharge that would allow that? Thanks for any help!

    • S.

      I mean, I am sure it is possible, but if he were to get out early it would most likely be something that would disqualify him from joining another branch.

      One option he has is to look out for the VEERP Early Out Program. Those pop up once a year (so far since 2010) and allow people to gt out earlier.

      • Chose_Wrong_Branch

        Thank you S. for your input. I’ve been writing positive encouraging things to him thinking that it was just a phase but he wrote a 7 page letter not long ago explaining why he feels this way. I have to say that I know he is clearheaded in his feelings now and that he knows this is the wrong branch for him. His Grandpa retired as a Major in the Marine Corps so this decision was not based on hating them, only being where HE would better serve and be happy. My husband was Army, his dad was Navy and my brother is a career Airforce 18+ years. We have a very diverse family and we are never bashing any of them except in fun. He fell for the brotherhood propaganda speech and really desired it but he says the only brotherhood he has seen in it was the fact that they we’re the only ones who knew how bad they could all be treated because most of them won’t talk about it to outsiders because the outsiders truly don’t /won’t understand it…Even when they hate it, they just tend to go through the motions until their time is up. He doesn’t want to be attached to something that doesn’t really value anyone,
        just an image of what they want people to believe. Again, that wasn’t said angry, he was just explaining why he felt this way and asked if I could give him advice. Thanks for the input again and thank you for having a site to ask these questions in good or bad situations!

        • S.

          My pleasure. Keep an eye out for any more advice others may give. Send him to the site so he can ask questions too, if you guys are up for that.

    • bootasfuck

      I hope I’m not writing this too late (and if I am, maybe some poor other poolie or parent will find this and take it up), and you can look around this website and find some answers I’m sure, but there was a guy a few months ago who frequented this site who wound up getting dropped from Parris Island because he refused to train, and then he wound up re-enlisting in the Air Force as a reservist. So it’s definitely possible. Although he might have better luck with the Guard…if he still prefers Army.

      One other thing I’d suggest if he wants to get out, and get out in style, is (assuming he’s still at the recruit depot) keep going until the end, do the Crucible, and on the final march back, I recommend no more than half a mile before the finish line, just have him step out of formation, sit down on the side of the road, and have him relax and be like “I don’t wanna be a Marine anymore. I just wanted to prove I could do it”. If I could redo my experience, that’s what I would’ve done. Just a suggestion.

    • bootasfuck
  • concerned parent

    I am a parent of a marine who has 1 week of ITB left he just recently had a son and had not seen his son until holiday break. He no longer wants to be a marine he just wants to come home and raise his son. What will happen to him once he tells his instructors he is quitting? I would appreciate any info. Thank you.

    • Juan

      If he tells his instructors that he refuses to train, he will more than likely be administratively separated with an “other than honorable” discharge. This type of discharge won’t affect him as negatively as a “bad conduct” or “dishonorable” discharge, the latter counting as a felony on his record. The only way an “other than honorable” could affect him is if he seeks employment with a government agency in the future. He will probably get put on some kind of legal hold for a few months before being completely processed out, but in the long run he’s much better off suffering for a few more months, as opposed to the next four years.

      • concerned parent

        Juan thank you for the information I really appreciate it. I hope it is not a dishonorable discharge that he receives. Do you know if he will be able to leave base at all during this process or if he will be able to have visitors? Once again thank you.

        • S.

          You pretty much have to murder people to get a dishonorable.

        • Juan

          I have known people in the past who were on “legal holds” and could still leave base. Based on what I’ve personally witnessed, it appears to work on a case-by-case basis, depending on what the commanding officer deems appropriate. As for visitors, I don’t see any reason why they would deny him, but I’ve never actually witnessed anything like that in person.

        • Juan

          Another big thing to keep in mind is that he should do this while still in an “entry level” status. Based on what I’ve read “entry level discharges” are usually accompanied by much less severe punishments. I believe the window for entry level status is within 180 days of his enlistment, but I could be wrong. I’m sure someone on this site would know.

  • Adam 1

    NOT sure I would recommend this course. What will the Drill Instructors do? Beat the shit out of you, or get fellow recruits to do it. I was at mcrd San Diego in 1995, and THAT’S why I wouldn’t have taken this course. Instead, spoke to Chaplain and was honest with him about my feelings. Was discharged after having beeen there about thirty days. I regret my quitting to this day. I’ll promise you that just because the D.I.’s aren’t SUPPOSED to do something doesn’t mean they won’t. Tell your recruit to think it through. He knows his D.I.’s, I don’t. Some of them follow the rules, but many of the ones I knew didn’t. I was assaulted by one as were other recruits. The same one who assaulted me had the recruits assaulting one another on orders. REALLY didn’t respect that. It’s why I left. Just remember that if your son is treated wrongly by his Drill Instructor(s), there’s no 911 or lawyer for him to call.

    • TerminalCpl(who got Sgt)

      That is false, it takes very little to ruin a career at the drill field. That recruit could honestly talk to anyone higher than his drill instructors and force the issue.

      • Adam 1

        I know what I experienced.

  • One of the Few

    Wow! Seriously anyone who takes this advice is a freakin coward a disgust to my country and a shame to be able to be called an American. If you think USMC bootcamp is hard then you must be a mommas boy or a cry baby or BOTH. Go back to your mommas boob and dont let go until its time check out of this world because if you do… let me tell you life is gonna be a worse hell than 3 months of fun and games which is all USMC was to me… with a little bit of yelling in my face.

    • freeatlastfreeatlast

      I have a challenge for you, find a similar article related to how to get out of BUDS, the MARSOC or RECON indocs, or even the British Royal Marines boot camp. I don’t think you can, because these organizations decided to let those who can’t cut it get out right then and there, and are all the better for it. Could you imagine the SEALs in BUDs telling their inductees that “the fastest way to get out of this place is to graduate”? This is where it all starts; the Marine Corps forces hundreds of recruits through its induction process that aren’t a good match every month, which allows the Marine Corps to treat its members like disposable trash because there’s more coming right behind them. This causes many of the Marines who could actually be assets to the Corps to get out as soon as possible, and retains those who are willing to put up with the horseshit for free food and a guaranteed paycheck and pension.

      What did I learn in boot camp?

      -Don’t rock the boat and be sure to yell loudly when the time comes, just do what you’re told and don’t ask questions, as long as you have black on your collar, you aren’t paid to think.

      -Treat your peers like shit and foster an us-and-them mentality within the ranks that detracts from mission effectiveness.

      -Mission effectiveness is inversely related to how many IPs you have on your uniform.

      -Good leaders yell a lot and throw many a temper tantrum, you can’t lead without yelling in your subordinates faces and acting like a six year old when something goes wrong.

      -How well you can shoot kind of matters, but how well you can clean and drill is the real question.

      Finally, I would argue that the real cowards are the ones who just put up with the bullshit and act like they’re hard asses for doing it. It takes more courage to stand up for oneself and say that you’re not going to take the bullshit lying down anymore than it does to bend over and take it day after day.

    • Older Marine Vet

      The same old tired arguments get repeated over and over again on this forum!
      the problem with your line of thinking is that it reflects the narrow minded (aka stupid) mentality of Drill Instructors, that being there are only two choices in life- put up with the harassment and become a Marine, or go work at Burger King!
      Well, as an older and wiser adult, I’ve been Marine enlisted and a Marine LT. We all have our different jobs and roles to perform, and some people are not cut out to be Marines, nor should they be forced to if they are not going to make a positive contribution. Just process them out quickly and efficient, with no stupid harassment!
      I severely doubt that Bill Gates, Steve Jobs or Steve Wozniak would have made it through Marine Boot camp, but their achievements and legacy far surpass ANYTHING you have ever done or achieved in the Corps ‘One of the Few’ – or in your life so far.
      Read what others have written here, and THINK about what they suggest. If you are so brainwashed by the USMC, that latter part is going to be very hard for you.

      • bivianaolivas

        Well said! I did my time in the marines, after 4years i realized i should’ve gone to college instead. Fortunately, when i got out i was able to obtain a Master’s in criminology and now attending law school. I wish i would have known about getting out of bootcamp, otherwise i wouldn’t have wasted so much of my time on a meaningless job that did nothing for me out here.

      • Kyle Fallon

        Sign a contract and complete what you swore to. Then leave. Simple.

        • older but not stupid

          Well Mr Old School hardass- the problem with this is that life ain’t as black and white as YOU would like it to be!

          In 2015 there is no reason for any potential poolee not to do their due diligence before signing a contract, but if they are really are a poor fit and cannot adapt ,I really do not see the sense in forcing them to stay on active duty!

          In times of fiscal austerity and downsizing, I do not see the point in keeping those who do not want to be Marines on active duty, nor prolonging the process of leaving ( 2 weeks should be the absolutely most for any type of out processing!).

          In OCS if candidates do not like it they have an opportunity to quit after 7 weeks. So why shouldn’t recruits be given the same option ( opportunity to discontinue after 8 or 9 weeks?) A serious bit of class warfare going on here- the FMF needs a lot more slaves than overseers huh!

          You don’t think that the military does its best to exploit poor and disadvantaged kids and coerce them to join, then traps them as its slaves with the “you signed the contract” argument? Would your hard ass and inflexible line hold up if you were drafted to go fight in a war you didn’t agree with (Vietnam for example)?

          And this argument gives the military a complete excuse to subject you to whatever petty, tyrannical and absurd rules it feels like making up for its convenience? Mutinies have occurred in the US Military in the past!

          Here’s some humorous examples to ponder:

          Part of feeding the War Machine today is that America has severely overextended itself and has an out of control Military Industrial Complex. Young men and women today are far better off staying away from the military, and the military should not be a large and resource consuming as it is.

          Finally, I received TWO honorable Discharges- one for my enlisted service and one for my Officer service.

          But my attitude about this whole subject has changed completely. If I could go back and do it all over again, I never would have willfully signed an enlistment contract with the USMC. And I have seen people do what it takes to leave early, and they were far from “cowards”,

          I was supposedly a “coward” in your eyes when after painfully and finally getting off active duty and successfully working a civilian job, I received a letter from HQMC asking if I was interested in returning to active duty for another Iraq deployment( who incidentally were the same people who had tried to prosecute me for a supposed “crime” I was never charged with).

          To be a “coward” and tell a Marine Major at HQMC to go fuck himself on the phone was the best ending to my Marine Corps career I could ever ask for!

          • Kyle Fallon

            Glad that I did not serve under you.

          • older

            That makes
            two of us! Working Aviation Maintenance and Supply, I’m glad I wasn’t in charge
            of ground combat troops and interestingly enough, the enlisted Marines in my
            shop were sad to see me go, because my replacement was a hard ass ( and not
            very smart) former Artillery Captain who was more into harassing them about
            petty uniform and office cleaning than actually making sure the Helo squadrons
            were properly equipped and their operations fully financially supported!

            Such said Captain had no experience with navigating the absurd bureaucracy that
            was the USMC’s financial and supply system, and anybody with some common sense
            could see that a competitive private business would be foolish to adopt the
            same inefficient practices inherent in a MAG ( Marine Aircraft Group)!!

            Funny thing is though- being a former enlisted Infantry Marine -I remember
            while in Iraq bending over backwards to reroute some gear to an Infantry
            platoon based on a request hastily written on the back of an cardboard MRE
            wrapper, only to be yelled at by some DICKHEAD LTCol because I didn’t follow a
            proper paperwork procedure ( in the middle of a damn war!)

            So I accept your criticism knowing that people like myself, who try and put
            common sense, efficiency and a complete disregard for some of the inflexible
            absurd rules that the military insists on imposing on itself, that if the
            outcome is to see past the stupid Bullshit and actually get something practical
            done in an efficient manner, then Your damned right I didn’t belong in the

          • Kyle Fallon

            My belief is that when you agree to something you agree to it. The
            Marines spend a lot of money on every recruit they get. Man up, get
            through the early hell, strengthen yourself and push through. Too many
            rules, absolutely. I am a positive thinker, and worked through some
            rules quietly, keeping the morale of the troops higher because they knew
            I stood up for them. I never took credit, but passed on the credit to
            those who served under me. Now if you were a Marine, you have a great
            resume to begin with, and you should always say with pride that you were
            a United States Marine; you are not an ex-Marine, you are a former
            Marine. Ooh Rah! <

          • Employer

            As an employer being a marine means jack shit to me. I just want to know if you have experience in what I need to fill. Being an asshole to your peers is not it.

          • Dee

            Good to hear!

          • Older soapbox

            Well Kyle Fallon, using your argument let’s imagine this:

            Suppose we imagined the F35 as a “new recruit in the Marine Corps”. It’s almost like paying at least a million dollars to a a nine year old who isn’t grown up enough to meet the basic entry standards, but HELL, he’ll do wonders for us in 10 years time as long as we pay him a million dollars a year, then when he does pass boot camp and get to the fleet well pay him TWO MILLION dollars a year because he is so “expensive to operate”!!!!!

            So show me the sense in wasting so much money on military industrial complex war toys and corporate welfare, and then complain that a low paid wage slave is shortchanging you? The USMC- like most inefficient government bureaucracies has no problem wasting money on expensive acquisitions or poor contracts, but then wants to crucify a junior enlisted for losing a piece of issued gear when deployed to Iraq!!

            Marines ” serve” the US government, and the US government is greedy, incompetent, corrupt and self serving!!!

          • Dee

            I have to add to this.. my husband is in the Navy and he came home one day and was in a mood… he was disgusted, because his department needed a stop watch to do a “check” on his equipment; however, theirs was broken? missing?… so he found one at Walmart for $20, BUT they cannot use that stop watch, because it has to be one from a “certified supplier” and THAT stop watch… cost over $300!!! The one he wanted to get, he could get THAT DAY, but the one they had to ORDER… had a leadtime of 3 months… so they were going to get into trouble for not “taking care of” their equipment in a timely manner…. yaddy yaddy yadda yadda

  • Texas01

    I entered MCRD in January of 1991 and quickly learned that I had made the greatest mistake of
    my life. I had just completed 2.5 years of college with a 3.9 GPA, majoring in Premedical Sciences (or at least that’s what the degree plan was named at that time). Upon completing the fall semester, I felt that I was burned out from a rigorous course of study and I
    hastily decided that I wanted to “take a break” from school while also looking for
    a means to pay for the remainder of my schooling through the GI Bill. Thus, without giving it any thought, I talked
    to a Marine recruiter. If memory serves me correctly, I may have taken a sample of the ASVAB in his office? I also clearly remember handing him my transcripts and arrangements were made immediately for me to take the ASVAB at MEPS in
    Houston. I also did some prerequisite PT there at MEPSs (which was minimal) and my physical performance coupled with my ASVAB score (which was in the 98th percentile) had my recruiter salivating with a major hard-on, practically begging
    to get me to San Diego literally within the next few days. I asked for another week (given how fast things were moving) so that I could notify friends and family of my plans. Within two weeks of completing my fall semester and meeting my recruiter, I found
    myself standing on the yellow footprints at MCRD. Shortly after arriving at MCRD and being processed, I and a few other recruits were pulled aside to do advanced testing of the ASVAB. I remember the group was informed that based on the test
    results, we could be chosen for “special assignments” (for lack of a better term) such as standing guard at the White House or an Embassy or something else that I had ZERO interest in pursuing. I remember losing all concentration during the test and having one of my DI’s
    summoned. I was marched back to my platoon and stepping into the DI’s office.I was surrounded by all three DI’s and a fourth Marine whom I’d never seen. They had my ASVAB score and college transcripts on file…I know this because they were discussing them as if I wasn’t there and then all of Hell broke loose. I informed them that I had made a mistake and that I should have finished college before deciding to join
    the military. It went downhill from there… approximately 24 to 48hrs later (after it was clear that I wasn’t going to change my mind), I was brought before a captain who berated me for the next thirty minutes. Afterwards, I was separated from the platoon and sent to another part of the base that housed other recruits being discharged (for whatever reason). For some reason I was seen by a head-shrink
    who, after reviewing my records, said, “You don’t feel that you belong here because many of the other recruits and even the DIs aren’t up to your caliber from an academic standpoint. However, if you get out now, you’ll regret this the rest of your life”. To be clear, I didn’t think that I was better than anyone else…that’s nonsense. I did however feel that I should have stayed the course with my education and I’m thankful that I was unwavering in my decision to leave MCRD. After my meeting with the psych, I was placed in back in the holding barracks – total time was about 19 to 20 days.

    Look, I am forever grateful for the sacrifices made by our military and their families. No one deserves our respect more and particularly
    those who have served in battle. To potential recruits and their families, I strongly urge you give due process in
    researching the military as a career option. In 1991, we didn’t have the internet, much less YouTube. Take your time…. Ask questions, questions and more questions. Talk to those who’ve served… forgo the hype, the commercials, movies, etc. The Marines aren’t for everyone…. Maybe the Air Force is a better option? It’s for you to figure out. Just don’t make the
    mistake that I and others have made… take your time. As for me, I have ZERO regrets leaving MCRD.
    Three college degrees later and a hefty six figure salary, I know I made the
    right choice by leaving.

    • Fred

      Incredible story, thanks for sharing. This is the most informative and insightful post on here. My son is down at Paris Island now, in RSP which is the hell-hole of the world. It’s basically incarceration, that we the people just turn a blind eye on. He actually wants to be in the Marines, but because of moronic rules they are separating him. He made the mistake…even with the internet and the lying game-show host recruiters, got caught up in the hype and joined immediately out of high school…a complete mistake. This coprs deserves little respect, in my opinion. They are some of the lowest forms of life I have encountered.

  • juan reyes


    • blackcockdown

      Dude shut your fucking annoying wanna be hard ass up. I bet your one of those gay little key board warriors who talk shit on the internet and in reality is a little faggot nerd that sits behind the computer all day and jerks off to hentai porn!!!

  • JohnAlexander

    i feel like this if the Corp is not you its just know for you but you have to man up and tell them that this is not for you.. this stuff above is a cowardly way out…but as a man you signed that contract…and you disrespect every man and woman the walked threw those doors…i was not in the Marine Corps i was in the Navy as A Navy Corpsman…i worked with marines for almost 10 years.. felled it was a true honor serving with them…

    • justin


    • IIlI

      most ppl. who sign up are teenagers. they are not men. number 2, they do it out of ignorance of the reality of the corps or poverty. very few have an actual idea of how it is. they should only take ppl. who have a personality that matches the corps. it’s a waste of money to just accept any guy with a pulse. most ppl. are not cut out for military

      • Fred

        Totally agree, well said.

  • Kyle Fallon

    A coward’s way out. If you want to humiliate yourself, then go home, and then say you were tossed because of health reasons, go ahead. Then you are a quitter and a liar and you will never forget what you did. Boot Camp is preperation and I am glad to see you go.

  • Kyle Fallon

    These blogs are mostly pathetic and written by people who think world revolves around them. If we had people
    like you during the 1700’s our country would still be an English colony. Life, limb, sometimes family, homes
    and land were laid waste. Good men fought, the cowards from both sides ran away. All I am reading is garbage
    in, garbage out. The best and strongest and even the kindest people I have ever known were military people who walked
    with pride, knowing they could accomplish anything. I worked with Marines, and they were proud, held their heads high
    and would walk all over most of you. This blog is an embarrassment to me and should be an embarrassment to you….If you wanted
    it easy, go join the Air Force. Just go put on your uniform and play Marine, would ya…

    • S.

      You are right and we are all wrong. Got it.

    • Usmcsucks

      Why don’t you just get on your knees and start servicing Marines- you know you want to!

      The biggest petty thugs and bullies I ve seen were those who wore a Marine uniform with some rank on their shoulder!

      I got no problem fighting oppression and tyranny( seems like every day our own government is more of the oppressor) but I had no enthusiasm to hate people ( ie Iraqis who didn’t do a damn thing to me) just becuase it was convenient for the U.S. Government!

      Thinking back to my SOI experience- in reality it was nothing but a petty harassment school, run by NCOS And SNCOS on daily power trips. They treated us like dirt and said they “didn’t need us” so why shouldn’t there be a balanced op Ed about how you can avoid wasting years of your life?

      If the military has the luxury of changing the terms of your contract for its convenience, then maybe those who are smart enough should see that they can rethink their side of the bargain as well!

      The Marine Corps ain’t going to hesitate to screw you- and had this web site existed a long time ago( and had I had some REAL COURAGE) I would have stood up to those SOI bullies and done my best to get out early!

      • Fred

        Right on!

    • freeatlastfreeatlast

      “Play Marine”? Would you give the same advice to a SEAL, to put on his uniform and “play SEAL”? In an elite organization, or any organization really, why would you want to keep guys around who aren’t going to add to mission accomplishment, and just go through the motions to avoid making waves? Before I joined, I expected boot camp and the Marines to be some ultimate rite of passage to manhood. I expected overall camaraderie between the ranks, because we were all Marines. In short, I expected a “few good men”. Expecting all this, I trained for about 2 years prior to shipping out.

      When I got to boot camp, they were graduating about 600 Marines a week. How well you could drill was more important than how well you could shoot or PT. The majority of my platoon seemed to have just rolled out of bed one morning and decided to sign up for the Marines. Actual comradeship within the platoon was discouraged in favor of giving a handful of recruits positions of “power” over their fellow recruits if they were willing to treat their peers like shit. It didn’t matter how well you performed, you were still fucked with because it was a safe bet that the majority of the platoon had fucked up somehow. We were starved because it was a safe bet that the majority of recruits were overweight. The PT was a joke, because it was a safe bet that the majority of recruits couldn’t even keep up with that. I was expecting BUDs, I got a beauty pageant.

      I came to realize that boot camp wasn’t about weeding out the weak, it was a one-size-fits-all cookie cutter approach to flooding an organization with much needed slave labor. We were treated like shit, because the easiest way to deal with a large group of people is to simply assume that they are all underhanded turds and treat them accordingly, the lowest-common-denominator approach. We weren’t given the opportunity extended to Officers, to drop on request, because we were slaves, not overseers. This allows hundreds of poorly fitting inductees into the organization every month, and initiates them by ingraining into them that the fastest way up the ladder is on the backs of their peers. There are many things that could be changed for the better in the Marines, and the first and foremost would be to encourage those who want to drop out of boot camp to get the fuck out. No more “the fastest way out of here is to graduate” bullshit, it should be “we only want the best of you to stick around”.

      • Older

        “Read and Heed” Kyle Fallon. The USMC need to be a much smaller organization like the Royal Marines, pay more attention to its active duty quality of life component, do away with some of the nonsensical regulations, and allow those who don’t want to be there easier exit routes with undue harassment that lasts for months!

        I made it through OCS ( you could DOR after 7 weeks) and TBS in 2000 , and in Flight School we were told if you wanted to DOR all you had to do was say the word to your Student Control Officer. So for the two MCRDS, we should abolish the quota of recruits system, allow recruits the opportunity to quit after 10 weeks if they feel it’s not for them, and do a Two year enlistment review Where Marines have the opportunity to exit but if they do they lose out on long term education medical or educational benefits. In other words, build financial, tangible and real incentives to keep those who work hard and discontinue those who are not going to be productive. And reward those who work hard by not treating them like prisoners!!!

        So we both have very different visions of what the Marine Corps should be like. And different vision of what Americas role in the world should be ie not an overextended Empire that needs a large War Machine!

  • Kyle Fallon

    There is shame in quitting. What is the old saying? Winners never quit, and quitters never win.

    • older

      But in this case how do you define “winning”? I’d say that avoiding at least three years of being treated like a second class citizen, being a low paying wage slave, forced to follow the orders of idiots, and being overworked for someone’s pleasure you have definitely ” won” – or gained more freedom!

      The older I get, the more realize that life has many shades of grey ( different expression) After my time in the USMC I worked a civilian job, did well in it then found out that I wasn’t getting paid as well in comparison to others doing the same work( they thought that by hiring military veterans they could make us work the more demanding jobs with less pay, because we were ” used to it”) So, I just said ” fuck them”, walked away from the job when they needed me the most, and rewarded myself with a Trip to Europe! And don’t regret it one bit!
      I won my freedom!

      So, your cliche is correct, but there is a huge difference between wanting to perservere with the vague incentive of the ” honor and privilege of being a Marine” vs say running as fast you can to qualify for Olympic trials to compete in the next Olympic Games , where you get more $$$$$ and more freedom.!!!

      I’ve never been a big fan of running around in circles and getting nowhere, or just mindlessly screaming and yelling and at the end of the day never accomplishing anything tangible.

      At at the end of the day, I tell young people to avoid signing an enlistment contract with the USMC , and apply the same cliche you wrote to something that is far more lucrative and productive- higher education, technical skill, computer skills for example

      Being an active duty Infantry Marine is nothing but a dead end career path with no future, and essentially you are a wage slave at the mercy of your USMC command and the U.S. Government, so it isn’t something that should be seen as worth the sacrifice in the first place.

  • terminal

    Here’s a bunch of “winners”- being the good little prisoners the Suck wants them to be!

    Almost reminds you of a chain gang huh!

  • RiotMorello

    I tried to quit boot, didnt think to try these tips, i had to resort to an attempted suicide since i was so desperate to leave. Looking back while I was in RSP talking to a couple others who just wanted out, some of the shit we had to say was funny when you look back, we made fun of our company commander’s scout school story which consisted of us making fun of the way he tried to make us feel bad for not pushing through the bullshit to get to a life of misery. Seriously, like 90% of the people in charge looked like they hated life, even if they barely every had to deal with, quote “filthy, disqusting recruits.”

    At least it gave me the knowledge to be able to skillfully impersonate a DI to fuck with people

    • older

      Well, for myself, I passed Bootcamp in 1992, got an honorable discharge for four years enlisted, went to OCS in 1999, and after some legal bullshit got an honorable discharge.
      I am not going to pass judgment on you- my more mature opinion is to give someone who does not want to be a Marine an option to ‘discontinue’- it shouldn’t take any longer than two weeks to do the out-processing, and there is no need to subject such people to petty and vindictive harassment!!
      On Drill instructors- we all experienced what they are like, and I made sure that I did not have to do that type of duty ( I could not be an asshole 24/7!) but I’ve worked around former Drill Instructors and its interesting to listen to their stories, and/or mindset.
      Not that recruits would ever be given a choice about this, but I think the worst situation would be to get DI’s who have come straight from the Drill Field, and you are their first platoon! It would take a couple of cycles for them to get the initial Hard core attitude out of their system!
      The other extreme would be is to get DI’s who have been at the MCRD’s too long, hate what they are doing, and take it out on their recruits!!
      In 1992 I was lucky to have decent Drill Instructors, in the sense they never beat us, or played cruel and unusual games with us. I’ve met former DI’s who have a hard time turning the mindset off ( it doesn’t work too well in the Air wing) but most former DI’s are very blaise about their experiences.
      In other words, they end up seeing their cycles of their recruits as nothing but CATTLE to be herded from one place to another. No sense getting to know them, or caring that much about them after they’ve gone ( or even when they are there!).
      I’m sure an former DI’s might correct me- this is just based on conversation I’ve had with the ones I saw on active duty.
      Looking back on my own experience, I should have avoided the enlisted ranks entirely, and just gone right into the military as an Officer. No matter what your choice is, it isn’t going to be easy, but there’s no sense keeping people who are ill suited to the job you want them to perform.
      you don’t want to be a Marine-fine. Goodbye, and good luck with the next phase of your life.

    • Fred

      You are spot on about those people in charge. I know, because I am one of them. It’s more like 99% of those in charge hate life. They get there by stepping on the shoulders of others, taking credit for things other people did, and lying. Broad-stoke delusional lying. Leadership is lying. Getting ahead is fooling others into believing your lies. The guilt and isolation eventually catches up and they become miserable. I know because I am one of them.

  • love4all

    I miss my boyfriend somuch.i wish he wasn’t in boot camp but I gave him support cause he was already in PT before we started dating and I didn’t want to look unreasonable. I live him and have no idea what he is going through over there. He promised to quit if our relationship will suffer but am afraid it might not be that easy. Please I need to know if he can quit after four years

    • Oldr

      The fact that you are asking this question here means that your boyfriend didn’t really inform you that about the nature of a Marine enlistment. You are committed to four years of active duty time ( standard) unless he committed to a longer time period!

      “He promised to quit if our relationship will suffer” – I hate to write this, but he can’t make a promise like that. His Marine command will not allow him to walk away from his contractual obligations that easily!

      Unfortunately , I think you really need to search deep within yourself and ask how committed you two are to a “relationship” where he is essentially US government property, and he has to deploy on a moments notice. I seriously doubt that you would be willing to wait four years just to begin something with him. A lot can change over that time period.

      I’m not a woman, but I can say that Marines can be damned difficult to love, or be committed to. You will end up hating the Corps for one reason or another.

      This is what you want to hear, but if I were you I’d consider breaking it off. Your current boyfriend has just begun his Marine experience, and for at least the next year will be quite ‘ mobile’ ie jumping from one place to another. Marines and marriages ( or even relationships) are not the best mix.

      • Master LCpl

        Actually he can quit if he is determined enough. That’s what this page is all about. However, I agree with Oldr. Think hard and long about it. Are you SURE he’s the one and vice versa? Do you see yourselves still together in a year? Is there a wedding planned? Are you aware the corps has THE highest divorce rate amongst the services? I’m assuming you’re both still fairly young and fresh out of high school. I personally witnessed several devil pups rush out of boot camp and marry their high school sweethearts only to be divorced less than a year later and paying child support for the next 18 years. Some young marine marriages are successful, MOST are not.I would suggest getting out of the mindset of “but we’re different, we’re in love” because that’s how most fool themselves. I took my recruiters and several other marines advice and broke it off with my HS babe and it was good advice. For my first 19 months in, I was home a total of 17 days including my 10 days of boot leave. Could you handle being apart that long? Again, think long and hard. Does he really want to give it up for you? What will he do for a living if he does quit? What are you plans for living arrangements? Those are just a few of the many questions to ask yourself. But if you are both absolutely determined that he quit and come home, myself or another can tell you/him how.
        Safety and Peace*

        * borrowed from Ninja_punch

        • Vantazia George

          It’s going to be so hard,it’ll hurt so much! I just feel so lost.

      • Vantazia George

        I don’t know what go say but thank you

        • Master LCpl

          Anytime. We’re here to help.

          • Vantazia George

            Thnk u

          • Devil Dawg 223

            You aren’t helping bro. You are a cancer and try positive thinking and a little motivation. You are out so be happy and proud. Move on…its the healthy thing to do.

          • NINJA_PUNCH

            That’s funny, the person asking for help seems to think we’re helping… the person who has been out for 15-20 years and yet clearly hasn’t “moved on” thinks we’re not… Funny how that works.

          • S.

            You inspired me today. I created this site back in 2010 after I got out of the corps, and since then this site has grown to be bigger than I ever imagined. The marine corps did most of the work. All I did was build this place, the marine corps did all my marketing.

            Anyways, today, I scheduled over 10 new articles to post every day into next month, all of which tell stories and explain the raw truth of the marine corps. I did this for you. I’ve become quite busy over the past year building my company to go from a 10 million dollar IPO to surpass 50, and have not had much time to mess with this little project of mine, but you inspired me to keep building.

            If I can build a 50 million dollar company, just imagine what I can do with this website if I start to truly focus. I never lose.

          • Devil Dawg 223

            Glad your inspired as promoting yourself about hour success is irrelevant to the su ject matter of your site. You have a thumbs up from someone who is obviously impressed so tell them about your big money.

          • S.

            Slow down dude. You are getting flustered and are missing a few keystrokes.

          • Devil Dawg 223

            Lol. That was good. Yes, the oldr got me going. By the way, I thought this was a 2 year old blog but nice job getting it in the top 5 Google search. I was just trying to research something and this came up. Also, your advice is legit and good in my opinion, its the comments that got me a bit fired up. Take care

          • S.

            Go enjoy your weekend and drink beer with your son. This website is not a place for you.

          • freeatlastfreeatlast



            At this point I poke my head in here for some entertainment when I’m not studying. You sir did not disappoint.

          • Matthew Boman

            Wish I’d known all this stuff back in 96 because I wouldn’t have joined. I’m glad I got the title Marine but in many ways it wasn’t worth it. Trying to get my own company off the ground too though and I’m happy for you.

        • Oldr

          Well, I’m an older guy who has gone through two periods of active duty time with the USMC- both enlisted and Officer. I appreciate the fact that you both have strong feelings for each other, but as young people you have to realize you will grow and change, and what might seem as a heartbreaking choice now will be better for you both in the long run.

          A first enlistment in the USMC is quite demanding, and really doesn’t leave much room for relationships. Hell, if It were up to me I would have strongly pushed for first term Marines to get a bonus for staying single ( as opposed to adopting the more draconian approach of banning first term marriages!) .

          Your both young, and have a lot of living to do.There’s no sense in rushing anything.

          But i’ll finish with this. For myself in my 20’s and early 30’s, I always put the Marine Corps first in everything. When I started to try and put other things as a priority ( “relationships” for example) that’s when I started to get backlash from my seniors, and thus began my ‘downward slide’ ( for want of a better term).

          You can wait- but if end up waiting for decades it can be too long.

          But then again, its the commitment that comes with being a United States Marine.

      • Devil Dawg 223

        Old post but good advice. I need to get off this website as most of it is pathetic. People need to grow up, provide positive encouragement and NOT join the .military if you are in love. Stay single until at least your 4 years are up and you want to reenlist. I’ve always thought that it would beneficial to require marriage is not allowed until you re-up. Lol. Obviously not possible but boy would it save a lot of drama and heartache.

        • Oldr

          Go fuck yourself Devil Dawg 223. Even back in the late 80’s/ 90’s, I hated overly ‘moto’ Marines like you, and I wasn’t in the minority either!! All you do is repeat the same shit that others have written- like your 2 cents worth really matters anyway.

          • Devil Dawg 223

            I think my .02 is alot more positive than anything you can fathom so not even worth it. I don’t even know what moto is bro. I just know it was a part of my life experience and try to stay positive on life. It’s sad you are an angry weak minded individual..

          • Oldr

            The only weak minded people I see is dumb assess like yourself that buy into the propaganda the USMC tries to shove down peoples throats, without every using your brain or critical thinking skills.

  • Daniel

    Hey, I know this is an old discussion, but I just graduated boot camp but I’m still not sure if the Marines is for me. Im about to head to mct next week.

    • jeremias

      MCT is you last chance to refuse to train! do it! get the fuck out of this organization man!

  • CoolLance

    I do wish the Corps wasn’t so damn needy. I would feel it much more true we are the few and the proud if all those that at any point in their careers said they didn’t want to just got to go home… I admit I thought at times I didn’t want to, but definitely never committed to that and never had a problem giving 100% regardless of the task with the big picture in mind. That being my sole job and task is to preform my duties and protect my brothers at the best of my ability. If we really were so selective there would be literally zero question about that between any brother in the corps. In the back of my mind I always asked…do they care as much as me?

  • sise67

    my daughter boyfriend left 06/01 for Paris Island he now wants to quit and come home he is homesick she wants him to stick it out now that he has been placed in RSP can he change his mind to stay and finish boot camp and his commitment

    • Fat Apple

      He could if he actually changes his mind.

    • jeremias

      Don’t have his girlfriend change his mind!!! this is HIS and ONLY HIS decision! he will regret staying in only to have his girlfriend leave him because of the long distance issues that comes with the military. every girlfriend thinks that they will be with their Marine for ever and ever but sadly that is not true. most of the girls my boys where with in bootcamp left them after only 3 months! imagine 4 years! staying in even though he hates it because his girl wants him to stay is selfish! is not about finishing what you started its about not having to suffer for the next four years! hell I was fucking depressed when i graduated from bootcamp because i knew i had to eventually go back! Civilian life is MUCH BETTER! he has more opportunities as a civilian if he gets out! who cares if people think he is a quitter god dammit he will be a free man!! F.R.E.E!!!! but if he stays he most likely will get depressed since he realized he didn’t like it already and realizing that is not a bad thing it means he has a working brain still! it does not get better after boot camp. Once you get the title of Marine it does not mean you will get treated like a human being again, they will not open their arms and accept you into the “brotherhood” like he might think they will its all crap! after he graduates he will just be a lowly private or pfc boot and the mind games/fuck fuck games continue..

      • Mike Armyquitter

        Thank you for this post. It hits a personal spot for me.

        After I mentally broke down in training, was crying uncontrollably from depression and told the command that I needed to go home, the First Sergeant(The “Dolt” Weatherholt) called my girlfriend at home to try and talk me into staying. I thought that was such a selfish thing on the part of the Dolt and my girlfriend. I’m the one that is suicidal and needs out to feel normal again. When it comes to the BS of the military, only the person doing the time can decide if they want to do it and no one else.

        Anyways, after the First Sergeant mocked me for crying and I told him to “Shut the hell up,” his bloated ego got bruised and told me to hang up the phone. Then he started acting like my girlfriend was a good person, which was only because she said what he wanted to hear. However, I responded, “If she’s such a good person, why did she cheat on me?” That was one of the few moments that I felt good in the Army, since I basically exposed his stupid tactic to get me to stay.

        I never said it, but I always felt like saying “If anyone needs me to stay to be OK with me, I don’t want anything to do with them.” I feel like that’s a belief that anyone in the military should have. At the end of the day, you have to look out for yourself. Maybe if you have children and the military is your only way to provide for them, I could see making the sacrifice. But otherwise? It’s you that has to live with the crappy military, no one else.

        • jeremias

          check it out man you got a good set of balls on you bro for standing up for yourself, I also agree with the thought that I I have to stay just to be liked and accepted is a bullshit bonding. I remember our gunny telling us in SOI that no one put a gun to our heads for us to stay there but that we signed a contract and I thought yeah well we also didn’t know the big picture of how our life would be before we joined all they said was its gona be so cool! ladies are gona love you! DRESS BLUES! war movies type shit. also everyone puts it into a positive light in the civilian world so you think your actually gona be doing something meaningfull instead of just getting fucked with all the time/cleaning. quitters may be frowned upon in the civilian world but that’s for like petty shit like quitting a sport. in the military quitters are the only ones who have the fucking balls to say” fuck this petty shit” stand up to their superiors and refuse to be a fucking slave/prisoner.

          • Mike Armyquitter

            Don’t get me wrong, I had no balls during that time period and hate that I was so suicidal and depressed. That First Sergeant POS made sure to pick on me plenty while I awaited discharge. I still remember my counseling. “You’re weak!!!” Yeah, talk down to someone with bad depression. That’ll fix it, stupid.

            I constantly wonder how that First Sergeant(now Command Sergeant Major) made rank. This guy just was a complete imbecile. I’m not one to judge or assess other people’s intelligence, but this guy just came off like a brainwashed idiot. Did this clown slip through the cracks or does the military want morons like this? My head has been thinking the latter, perhaps unfairly.

            As far as that BS about “we didn’t make you sign the contract,” you’re exactly right that people sign those usually in good faith(all the reasons you stated) and don’t know what awaits them. I attest that the whole enlistment process is a Constitutional violation. How can one give up basic freedoms over a signature on a piece of paper? Worse yet, the actual terms of the contract can be changed by the government and clearly there is deception through omission. Basic Training is prison, but no crime was committed. I cannot believe it is allowed in this day and age.

        • Not proud to be a former marin

          I admire your honesty. The military is not for everyone. I graduated only because my dad and uncle said they would beat my ass if I didn’t . I pissed my pants because they don’t let you make head calls . I got beat on by my guide and squad leaders for not making it through enough obstacles in the confidence course. I cried a lot and I don’t think I’m any better than anyone that quits. Marines are trained killers and bullet stoppers, what’s so honorable about that? My mos was 1530. I graduated parris island in 1981 after 4 recycles.

      • Devil Dawg 223

        I’m.not sure how old you are but your advice sucks. Losing a GF over a decision that can impact his entire life is nothing. Just cause you quit doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone. GFs,LMAO. Had one in PI and 10 more before I got married at the age of 27. Ridiculous advice.

    • Devil Dawg 223

      I was extremely homesick and that is NOT a good reason to quit. It’s something he will probably regret for the rest of his life. I was so home sick I requested to be stationed on the east coast instead of Pendleton or Hawaii. That is a regret I have. Camp LeJuene sucked!!

  • Mike Armyquitter

    I just want to thank you guys for this website and giving me hope that there is intelligence and empathy in the military.

    My story was that I joined the Army out of boredom in 2006. It was an ignorant and stupid decision since I never researched what actually transpires in the military; I just felt that since society portrayed it in a positive light that it would be the right thing to do.

    Once I got to Basic Training, I realized that I had a mental health issue, as I felt trapped like a prisoner and was miserable every second of every day. In addition, I just couldn’t rationalize how a free society like the United States could design a system where its own citizens are not allowed to quit.

    Originally, I didn’t even want to quit, but the Drill Sergeants and First Sergeant constantly threatening and saying that you couldn’t quit made me feel so trapped that suicide became the only legitimate option out of my own personal mental hell. I made a horrible attempt in a bathroom stall before I realized that it was better for me to try to get discharged than successfully take my own life.

    Luckily, I was able to get a Doctor to recommend discharge not long after that. However, the resistance I met from the command, despite having attempted suicide and crying uncontrollably, still haunts me to this day. I wasn’t looking for support; I just wanted to be left alone and discharged. I still cannot fathom how someone obtains the rank of First Sergeant(and now Command Sergeant Major) being moronic enough to berate someone that a doctor finds unfit for service. These guys were so stupid and one-dimensional in how they handled things; fear and intimidation, nothing else. It made me question the entire way the military does things, when these guys didn’t have the sense to realize not everyone is cut out for it. Sadly, from reading Marine stories, it sounds like their training is more of the same, in their lack of understanding that some people don’t have it in them or want to be ordered around every second of their day.

    It scares me that people in the service have to take orders from the type of people that I dealt with. Human beings should be able to adapt better and accept that with authority comes responsibility not to abuse that authority. It seems the military doesn’t care though and promotes those that eat up their platitudes and way of thinking.

    Anyways, this site makes me feel better that military personnel(or former) don’t just accept the BS behavior of people in power and acknowledge it is a problem. In addition, I like reading how some people believe the military should allow people to quit in the training phase. I accept that I made an ill-informed decision and I wasn’t mentally right for the military, but I believe people that don’t have mental health issues are just as entitled to a discharge as I was. The Constitution has amendments dealing with involuntary servitude and due process, which I feel are both violated in parts by the service. Many people do not know what they are getting into or even how they will respond. A signature on a piece of paper shouldn’t have the power to waive rights that are valued so highly.

    • fat apple

      Glad to see the Army side of things.

      • Mike Armyquitter

        I often wish that I hadn’t been so depressed/suicidal and had tried the refusal to train method instead. However, I could not have known how depressed I was going to be, and my paranoia and dislike of that training company command still leaves me skeptical of the validity of a method like this. I mean, don’t these jerks look better if they graduate a higher rate?

        • fat apple

          That is the issue in the USMC recruit training. People in boot camp get the pass to graduation: those who don’t want to be there anymore, those who sleep on watches all the time, etc. I can’t speak for the Army because I haven’t been there myself. But Soldiers have complained some Soldiers are shitbags who shouldn’t have made it through basic.

        • Devil Dawg 223

          Mike, depression is the real deal and understand and have compassion and empathy for those that suffer from it. I’m glad you clarified your reasons for being a “quitter” but someone with depression is not a quitter. There is a medical reason if you are diagnosed with depression. My only advise, change your screen name. It’s not healthy identifying yourself as a quitter.

    • Fred

      This was so difficult to read, I feel so bad for you Mike. The USMC is so F’d-up, backwards, and filled with egotistic blockheads. My son is down at Paris Island now and is in RSP. He actually wants to be a Marine but because of a history of a medical problem in his childhood that is now resolved, he is being separated. This is insane. He no longer has the problem (hasn’t had it for years) , but because the diagnosis is on a list, they are separating him. I’ve been on active duty in the Navy for 36 years now and I want no part of this rediculously stupid organization anymore. I am going to Paris Island next week and getting my son out of that RSP hell-hole. If the media or general public knew RSP is basically incarceration, there would be country-wide riots. I will be dropping my papers immediately. After giving 36+ years to this country and seeing this, I am physically sick and nauseated. You’ll probably be reading about me in the news as I am ready to go full frontal postal on the USMC and take down anyone who gets in my way. They are holding my son hostage…the son of a true patriot. It’s tragic what has happened to this country.

      • jeremias

        I sir, Salute you with respect for taking a stand for your son. They might actually let him go with you, we all know the USMC doesn’t like bad publicity.

      • Devil Dawg 223

        Fred. With all due respect, you are complimenting someone with the word “quitter” in their name. 36 yrs in the Navy and you did not know the way the USMC rolls? I spent most of my time with squids and they all know how whacky the corps is. But you def should show some respect. The Navy and Marine Corp has so much history together and won the Pacific theater together. I get its your son so you are making it personal but keep in mind, this is nothing new. Unfoetunate things happen but there are 2 sides to every story. If you son wants out, he should get out. But let this be a learning experience and a couple weeks of BS is nothing in a lifetime of BS we all deal with. Good luck and I wish your son the best.

    • Devil Dawg 223

      Re-read your first few were stupid and didn’t research anything and you were bored. You summed it up, stupidity is correct. Joining the military out of boredom is ridiculous. Laziness and boredom wouldn’t get you thru the AF basic training. You will learn one day that mistakes can make you a stronger person. But blaming others for your stupidity is whats wrong with many of of the youth these days. Figure out what you want to do and go.for it. Quitting is weak, but as long as you learn from your mistakes, it will benefit you in the long run. Good luck with your future endeavors

  • nicolle vincent

    my son is in parris island and hates it. he wants to come home and his DI has talked him into staying. so he says he cant quit. how can he get sent home?

    • Jeremias

      TELL HIM TO REFUSE TO TRAIN!!!!!! I tried to quit in boot camp too but my senior drill instructor told us he would keep dropping us until we spent our whole miserable lives as recruits if we tried to quit ,but if your son sticks to his guns doesn’t give into their kindness when they try to give him little moto pep talks ( and they will),and simply refuses to train they will send him to RSP. He will be there about 2 or 3 weeks getting treated like garbage but its WORTH IT! its better to be called a quitter by these asshole drill instructors(who act like they give a shit about your son and that they only want to make him a man but they don’t really give a damn about him, he is just another “nasty” recruit to them that they need to graduate) ,than to be MISERABLE for the next 4 years! I know one guy who sat on the quarter deck for 3 days straight refusing to train and they sent him home! also he can tell his senior DI that he is suicidal. but write him 10 damn letters if you have to explaining to him to simply refuse to train and to stick to his guns! they will try to scare him into going back with his platoon! 1st Sgt told me that he would call a “big ass MP” to handcuff me and send me to the brig if I really wanted to quit and that I would do 8 months in the brig before being sent home with a BCD, well haha what a load of horse shit! trust me BOOTCAMP is the ->best<- time to get out of the Marines with a administrative separation. its gets ALOT HARDER to get out once he graduates boot camp and they WILL make him graduate even if he doesn't want to. Hell I didn't even give a shit when they gave me my EGA all the other guys in my platoon where crying thinking that they made it. well after boot camp IT DOES NOT GET BETTER LIKE HIS RECRUITERS AND DRILL INSTRUCTORS TOLD HIM. its does not get better. but if he sticks to his guns no matter how hard and impossible it may seem he can get out. REFUSE TO TRAIN. have him sit on his ass/footlocker/or the damn deck if he has to and not do a damn thing, they cant force him to train. Lastly, they WILL I promise I.T the whole platoon to get him to train again, like I said earlier "stick to his guns dammit and don't give in when they I.T the platoon to get him to rejoin!

      • Older MarVet

        Years ago this type of talk would have really made me angry, but after having gone through the USMC grinder and with the wisdom of older age ( that is alternative media on the Internet!) this advice actually makes a lot of sense.
        Better to stand your ground and take the heat early, rather than spend at least four years being another body for the US Government Corporate War Machine to use and abuse.

    • woodye10

      my son also is in parris island he got hurt and wants out have no clue what going on his recruiter is a great guy been trying to get me as much info as possible I know from what I read and the recruiter told me they can get out ,they just have to go thru a ton of b.s. before they discharge um if anybody knows a quiker way to speed up the process id love to hear it

      • fat apple

        If he was injured pretty badly he’d be dropped right away. This is rare though. Usually they will recycle him 2-3 time. I remember in boot camp there was a recruit like that. He was injured and when he was in our platoon, it was his third. He had been in boot camp for 9 months total. When he re-injured himself, he was sent to medical then sent home for good. But it takes awhile to get processed out.

    • Master LCpl

      Jeremias said it perfectly. Also,as I instructed another to do, print a copy of this page in small font front and back & send it to him. Bulky envelopes only arouse suspicion. Also send a copy of the I.T. card so he can see it for himself. If need be, you can privately send one of us his PI address & we could also try to “motivate” him to quit. If he definitely wants out, NOW is the time. Repeat, NOW is the time.

  • confused dad

    My son was hit in the back of the head by another recruit . The other recruit claims that he pushed him but you can see an arch at the top of the cut. Anyway he was in the trauma center in Charleston . His brain was bleeding in 2 places. Before this he really wanted to be a marine. I received a letter from him the day after I got to hospital and he was still saying that he couldn’t wait to be a marine. Now this took place with 2 D.Is in the squad bay. One of the D.Is was just standing with him while he was getting dressed but didn’t see anything. After he finally woke up he no longer wants anything to do with the marine corps. He is now in a med-corp and I’m not sure what’s going on.

    • ijskjfkjk

      Damn. I wish you son a speedy recovery. Chances are your son will be dropped from training for good. That recruit who hit him can be criminally charged by the USMC.

      • confused dad

        As of right now the recruit has been dropped back but they say they’re bringing in someone from the outside to investigate. Since he’s been back there has been no information. I guess I just thought that they would keep us informed, but we’ve gotten no update on his condition or the investigation since he’s been back. This is crazy.

        • Bubba fett

          Hmm from what I have seen, that’s what happens. The recruit who assaults someone will get dropped first pending legal action. A number of things can happen to the recruit who hit your son:

          1. Nothing happens, ie no charges bought up via Article 15 hearing.
          2. The case goes through from an Article 15 hearing to a Court Martial. There could be a chance NCIS (federal law enforcement for the Navy and Marines) is investigating this.

    • fukusmc

      “One of the D.Is was just standing with him while he was getting dressed but didn’t see anything”
      Reading what you wrote, having known and worked with former D.I’s I wouldn’t take this bullshit at face value. D.I’s never hesitate to use their status to “manipulate” recruits, that is, pump them full of anger and violence, and quietly encourage some stronger recruits to beat up recruits they personally hate.
      I can’t conjecture about the dynamic that led to the assault on your son, but if it were my son I’d be asking some tough questions about the D.I’s role in this. They’ll lie through their asses, or sell out recruits to cover themselves! You might want to consider getting a good lawyer who specializes in military cases, and don’t have any hesitation in wrecking careers!
      Reflecting back on my time on active duty, I always found that the greatest irony about the USMC is they want you to commit extreme acts of violence on other people -‘ the enemy’, whoever they happen to be, but has excessive politically correct rules about Marines being violent toward each other, They make you scream and yell “Violence is the Answer!” but won’t hesitate to fry you if you actually follow through with that ( when its doesn’t suit their purposes!)

      That’s one of the reasons I got out. Why should I hate Iraqi’s because its convenient for the US government when I saw plenty of Marine assholes who deserve to be beaten and shot?
      Sorry about your son- see if you can use as an opportunity to get him as much compensation and benefits as possible.

  • Mac

    Try contacting Stephan Karns. He has represented several members of the military in different situations. I believe his office is located in Dallas, TX. Best of luck to you and your son! 214-750-9010

  • Michael mewshaw

    Why hate the Corp hate yourself becauce you pussied out! Don’t make a commitment you can’t keep. That’s from a Former US. MARINE.


      You realize that the vast majority of people on this forum (myself included) made it through boot camp, did our four years, and got out with honorable discharges, right?

      You also realize that the whole point of boot camp is to train those who would be a good fit for the marine corps, as well as to identify and separate those who would not be a good fit, right? I mean i’m sure that you already knew that, since just letting anyone in and then forcing them through the system no matter how poor of a fit they are would be a recipe for a mediocre unit that could not possibly have any reason or justification for its existence.

      Of course, since you were a marine, you already know that it takes more effort and courage to quit than it does to just submit, follow the herd, put forth the minimum effort, and graduate as a marine, so apparently the marine corps is just such a mediocre and pointless institution.

      Huh… strange how that works.

      Shifting topics slightly, I do have to thank you for this comment, because you helped me learn something. You see, up until now, I thought that the marine corps should have been thanking us for helping those who don’t want to be marines (and therefore wouldn’t be good fits in the marine corps) to leave while they still can, thereby increasing unit cohesiveness and ultimately improving the marine corps. But now I see why ex-marines like you get so upset: Because we’re encouraging the best candidates you have to quit. We’re taking every recruit who has the courage to stand up for his/herself, and teaching them how to stand up for themselves in boot camp, thereby leaving the marine corps with only the cowardly recruits. I’m sorry that this article has clearly bruised your pride by making you feel like one of the weak links who didn’t quit, but I’m here to tell you that your entire life doesn’t have to be defined by one job that you used to have. You can move on and have a decent life in the civilian world.

      Safety and Peace

      • Prestonp94

        Damn, I’m not sure what you’re doing with your life these days, Ninja Punch, but it may be a shame if you don’t consider running for public office at some point. I see more honesty and genuine insight from you than any 5 common people put together. Your words of truth cut through bullshit like a hot knife through butter.

        • NINJA_PUNCH

          Thanks. I’m working on my bachelor’s degree at the moment, but who knows what the future has in store. I might end up in politics someday (although I’ll have to be careful to mind the old adage about “those who fight monsters”).

          • Dee

            Don’t get into politics to be a politician… that is the only advice I have to give… the country is sick of career politicians, it wants “real” people to start running the country now!

          • Devil Dawg 223

            He’s perfect for politics See. I read your post and its very sad and unfortunate. But not tonbe sound mean as I am a father with a son who is porb going to the USNA as an athlete and serve his country, but your son needs to step up and address the crime that was committed. If he wants out, so be it, but to get out and not pursue the assailants, that would be giving up. Nail the bastards hard. Honestly, its hard for me to fathom the crime and I cannot say either way, but there are multiple options you have. First would be to contact an attorney that specializes in the UCMJ and get professional guidance from a legal perspective.

          • oldrmf

            Devil Dawg 223 , having worked with some “Ringknockers”- aka arrogant, self centered conceited Naval Academy asshole LT’s , why doesn’t it surprise me that your sorry reproductive spawn will end going to that SHITHEAD FACTORY?
            Your advice above is just worthless rambling btw. But at least you can live your past glory days of being beaten up all day by your NCO’s vicariously through your son!!

          • Devil Dawg 223

            Lol. Sad and weak. You and your friend Ninja are just immature little turds that haven’t even experienced life. Those glory days areong gone and to think that your sad and pathetic mental weakness will get you no where in life. To mock someones child is the lowest of loes. You failed in serving your country and I can only imagine how you probably xk tinue to fail in life. My son a straight A athletic scholar that is mentally, physically and e ktiknallh strong and based on your comment and Ninja you are very weak in all 3. So yeah you can insult a young man lke him who could careless bjt me, I’d still kick your

            With that said, people that do have emotional or mental issues should reconsider and I can appreciate that. But your old Azz is I believe has not admitted to yourself that you have those issues and are quite pathetic. I’m sure your friends and families clearly see it and hopefully one day you will too.

            It blowsy mind that you CV and insult the warriors who provide the freedom we have today. Pathetic and unamerican.

          • S.

            Says the guy who calls people “failure in life” and “cancer” on the internet because they have different opinions. You are a hypocritical turd.

          • Devil Dawg 223

            Why am I a hypocrite. I responded and can appreciate a difference of opinion. Did you respond to the dbag that said FU and talked a ojt someones kid? If not, that stfu as I def dont care a oht your opinion.

          • oldmf

            If you are college educated as you claim, then why can’t you form a coherent sentence? OH, I forgot- you were a Marine. Its the ones who are the most proud that are the dumbest.
            Yeah, if your son is anything like you, then he’s the product of a shithead. The Marine Corps would be a perfect place for him. Or he can be treated like a prisoner at the Naval Academy taking the Marine option, where they do stupid shit like make their cadets memorise menus all week!
            We don’t care about your opinion either, and I thank the creator of this web site for allowing an avenue to expose how stupid and idiotic the Corps really is, plus the abortions it creates (like Devil Dog 223)

          • Devil Dawg 223

            Look, you’ve obviously got issues andand maturity is not one of them. You act like a teenager with your responses. It was 130 in the morning texting on my phone and everyone here I’m sure, doesn’t give a shit about your opinion as well. Plus when someone picks out grammer or senetnce structure as a talking point or use as an insult, they are are the one’s people don’t give a shit about. You’re any angry little man and evdn though I do feel sorry for those that have to deal with your ignorance, I do wish you a healthy future. I’m out bro. Have fun stewing in your negative little shithole you climbed out of.

          • oldmf

            Damn! Such longwinded crap, which almost describes YOUR behavior on this web site to a T! You obviously had some type of complex over a day ago where you felt the need to post nonsense every half hour, and didn’t our panties get tied up if someone dared to disagree or question you?
            Your arguments have been reduced to nothing, and your dramatic reversal and apologies to others show your weak minded, inconsistent cowardice.
            This web site is the most truthful and intelligent thing I’ve seen about the Marine corps in years, and I guess your diaper got soiled over a collection of TRUE experiences. The four total years you did hardly rates for any real insight, and all you did was echo the forced propaganda that was shoved down your throat ( or in your case- up your ass).
            You know nothing of me and my temperament or disposition. And you don’t argue any rational points very well either. Just go away and yell OHHRAHH all day, wearing your veteran moto bullshit, and dream about the times you got beat up by your Marine NCO’s-all while acting like the little bitch boy they wanted you to be!

          • S.

            You don’t see it, but you are acting foolish and your behavior is really starting to prove our points. Just walk away man. It’s the weekend, go enjoy some beer and leave all this behind ya. Seriously.

          • Devil Dawg 223

            S. I will enjoy the weekend but clearly you don’t me. I don’t drink so not sure why youd refernece beer but 2 points I wanted to stress was first, its bad and sad for everyone the first seceral weeks. If you asked on the 4th day, who wants out, 75% would roll out I bet. 2nd, its not for everyone but once in, there is a contract and its a process to get out. The rest is just a bunch of banter and passion.

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            Man, boot camp boot camp boot camp. Who gives a fuck about boot camp? Marine boot camp had a higher passing rate than either the Navy or Army in 2006, and it only got worse with the Grow the Force initiative passed the next year.


            When I went through, it was a tremendous letdown that I had been duped into believing that something as mind numbingly easy as that was to be a rite of passage into manhood. It ingrains group think into your psyche, makes you believe that if you follow orders to their letter, that you’ll be just fine, and that deviating from orders in any way will lead to you and your friends being hurt.

            It also teaches and ingrains many poor practices that have to then be dumped quickly if you want an effective member of a combat team to result from further training. First and foremost is the thoughtless rushing into any situation if you’re told to. The sheer lack of independent thought that most boots present is doubly compounded when they get paired with NCO’s who don’t know what they’re doing because they were too busy sucking dick and memorizing the drill manual to learn their jobs. That ties into the Marine Corps unique refusal to take an MOS proficiency exam into account when assigning promotions, which is an actual issue that should be addressed on this site. Non issues are things like ex-Marine vs former Marine semantics.

          • oldmf

            Damn- I’m laughing at your self righteous high and mighty response! How the fuck would you know what my history is? And your response shows your lack of maturity- more like an inferiority complex, that you feel the need to ramble on about how great you and your spawn are! Living vicariously through your children I see, because being the Corps BITCH BOY made you feel superior to others? Were you beaten a lot as a kid?
            I personally don’t a shit about you, or your kid. I don’t care to read your input on this web site, because you automatically assume that just because others aren’t successful in the Corps they won’t be successful in life! There are so many definitions of what success is- so who are you to judge others based on your own narrow definition?
            Go back to a Leatherneck forum, since the truth is too uncomfortable for you.

        • Devil Dawg 223

          Yeah, he should be a politician because he’s full of sh*t. Read my post of your attn span can deal with it.

      • Devil Dawg 223

        As a FORMER Marine I now have to question you a bit as you continue to comment or respond to these young “hard chargers” and “go-getters”. You said you served 4 yrs with an honorable discharge and I’ve NEVER heard any Marine at anytime in my entire life use the word ” Ex-Marine”. Personally, I graduated from MCRD Parris Island in Dec 1988. Times were WAY different. Trust me, I have spoken to 100’s of Marines over the years and its very different from the 1980s and early 90s. There was no crucible as we experienced the same thing however it it was 10 days in the field and a forced March to and from BWT (basic warruir training).

        We were cursed at constantly and pbyscially “abused” for sure. I’m not sure if its still the case, but we had to hand over out “comfort packet” from our MREs every time we had chow. So no salt & pepper, tobasco, candy, etc. Just straight up cold chicken ala king. Anyway, I found a huge box of just the caramels while on Firewatch late a t night during BWT, I snagged one and was caught eating it by my Sr. DI. The next day, I thought nothing of it, but our super crazy and huge former Silent Drill Team DI stopped our platoon and he and I went behind a wall and had some one on one time. He kneed me in my thighs several times, grabbed a hold.of my chin strap and continued to punch me in my face. This is is just one of many times I experienced the pain and suffering being handed down bh our DIs. With that said, I wasn’t singled out as the same would have happened to anyone. I needed a little Azz whooping as I was a mamas boy and I hated bootcamp.

        There were no phone calls, internet wasn’t invented so no Facebook pages my parents could follow and for 12 weeks I never spoke to anyone on the phone. All snail mail. I can tell you the mind f*cks were non-stop. We recycled prob half our platoon. But with that said, I got through it and sucked it up.

        So as a 45 yr old, college educated professional with kids of my own, the USMC and especially boot camp is NOT for everyone. Matter of fact, its not for the majority of teenage boys and that’s why they clearly states ” The few, the Proud, etc. The few come first for a reason.

        NINJA, I’m calling you out as there is no way a former Marine who served even 6 mos would use the word EX Marine. You know, cause there is no such thing. So I see through your BS however with that said, its OK that you were not a marine or made it through to graduate.

        But the comments from a lot of these guys are strong and passionate is because they proudly served. So since they made the commitment and did suck it up, they have every right to be all gungho and sound off. Personally I was never super gungho. My proudest achievement in the corps was prob graduating PI with the same guys I started with.

        To this day, I have many friends that can’t believe II was a marine because I question everything and piss and moan too much, lol.

        But with all this said, people have to understand is that the DIs take their job very seriously. Go on YouTube and watch them work. They are telling, screaming, pushing the recruits as hard as they can all for one reason, they want to make the weak ones stronger and break down the ones who needed to be broken. You don’t understand that until the end of 3rd phase. It’s all a mind game and physically exhausting. But I look back to the DI I mentioned earlier. I saw him every freaking day, not one day off. On his day off, he’s still show up for an hour or two. They sacrifice SOOO much and its because they truly believe they will make a difference. They don’t want anyone to quit. I’d someone refuses to train or quits, they are that as a failure on them.

        Like the artcile mentions, they are just people, a little crazy, but still people. It takes a SUPER special person to do what they do. You couldn’t pay me enough to do what they do.

        Last, I may have already said that, but the reason its a long process is to discharge is for many reasons. But prob the most important is they DO NOT for want someone to give up and quit and then have them regret that for the rest of their lives. Theres no going back so its a positive aspect the separation is long and tedious.

        With all that said, recruiters should be more clear and the USMC should require ALL recruits, especially those in the Delayed Enlistment Program, watch a “real” video showing what its really like. The best video I’ve ever seen is a 6 min clip on YouTube titled “Marine Corps Boot Camp-Parris Island DI Punishment “. I was exhausted watchjng it but watch that DI work those on the qtr deck and the rest of the platoon on line. He’s putting every ounce.of energy he has into instilling discipline and physical fitness into.the future devil dogs who needed a tune up. I was on the qtr deck quite a bit and some. Even got the supply room treatment. It sucked but it did have a part of making me the man I am today.

        Sorry for the super long winded post but I felt I had defend some of the younger (maybe not as mature as me) who are taking this sh+t personally. Bottom line, if you can’t hack it and are 100% sure you make a mistake, you should be pushed til you are def positive you want out. Then you should be discharged as its not for everyone. God Bless the US and the few and the Proud and the ones who sacrificed their lives. By the end way NINJA, they are the ONLY ones the USMC should be thanking. Not me or anyone else who has died serving their country. Sound very arrogant and like a dbag with that comment.

        • NINJA_PUNCH

          Before I address your claim that I was never in the marine corps, I’d like to address your claim that “the reason its a long process is to discharge… is [because] they DO NOT for want someone to give up and quit and then have them regret that for the rest of their lives.”

          That’s an interesting theory, but I think you know full well that the purpose of boot camp (at least in theory) is not to ensure that no one feels regret at not having made it through. The purpose is supposed to be to train those who are best suited for the job, and to separate those who are not suited for the job. If the marine corps wants to be an elite unit, it cannot allow someone who does not want to be there to be forced through the system, because people who don’t want to be there don’t make for an elite unit. People who don’t want to be there put out the minimum amount of effort needed not to get yelled at, and that’s it. If all you want is for no one to feel regret at having quit, then essentially forbidding them from doing so is a great way to accomplish that goal, that said, it is completely impossible to do that, and have an elite unit at the same time. The two strategies are antithetical to each other, and cannot coexist.

          Now that that has been dealt with, I will move on to your claims regarding my person. I hate to break it to you, but I was a marine. I went through boot camp at San Diego in 2008, did my 4 years, did 7 months in Afghanistan, 2 years minus the deployment in Okinawa, and finished out my 4 years back on Edson Range on Pendleton.

          Now, you said before that you have “NEVER heard any Marine at anytime in [your] entire life use the word ‘Ex-Marine’.” Well I would hate to spoil your record, and that is why I am telling you right now that I AM NOT a marine, I WAS a marine.

          You see, that’s the difference: You are a “former marine” You’re a 45-year-old man who was in the marine corps in the late 80’s and early 90’s yet who (probably some 15-20 years after you got out) still goes online under the name “Devil Dawg 223”. You still cling to that “title” of “marine” because you feel that you will never be able to do anything else with your life, and need to try to ride the coattails of your former “glory” for as long as possible. I personally find that incredibly sad, and you have my pity.

          I, on the other hand, and am ex-marine. For me, the marine corps was four years of my life that I will unfortunately never get back. My current friends largely don’t know that I was ever in the military, and my family largely honor my request not to speak of it. I was a marine, yes, but I refuse to allow that to define who I am today. I took up the title once, but I have since renounced it. How did I renounce it, you ask? Let me tell you a little story:

          I don’t know how they did it in the 80’s, but in San Diego, in 2008, you “became a marine” when you completed the crucible and were handed an ega by your drill instructors on the parade deck at Edson range (where I later ended up being stationed for about the last 14 months of my active duty). I kept that particular ega separate from everything else uniform-related. At first I did that out of my boot-ish pride, but even after I lost that pride, I never actually put it in with everything else. The day before I went on terminal leave, I took that ega, went down to my shop after hours, and turned it into this:
          That night, I returned to the parade deck to the same spot where I had previously received it, and returned that ega to the place where it had been given to me. I then took out a lighter and burned the packaging that I had kept that ega in since i had received it, and left the ashes burning on the parade deck as I walked away.

          You see, I am not a marine. I have renounced that title and lay no claim to it. I am a civilian who once was a marine. That is why you are a “former marine” and I am an “ex-marine” (and in 81 days when my IRR time expires, I will not even be that). That, sir, is the difference.

          Safety and Peace

          • S.

            Wow, man, take it easy on the guy. You are going to make his head explode! lol. You destroyed that guy, and I doubt anything he says in response will be anything but “non-hacker blah blah you are cancer”.

          • Devil Dawg 223

            Not true Ninja. That guy showed his true colors and it makes complete sense why he is a disgruntled unhappy person who has prob struggled in everything he’s done. I don’t relive my glory days with my name, I picked it a long time ago. I support military oeg like the DAV and enjoy speaking with old timers wbo served in WW2. If it wasn’t for those guys, we wouldn’t be typing back and forth.

            You are a very young man and I will leave it alone. I have no idea why you would burn your EGA however as someone who has had a happy and successful life (FYI that came after the age of 26 and got.out of the Corp at 22) so my glory days was 26 through now. I guarantee in a few years you come back and review your posts, your thoughts may be different. Let go of the pain bro as its not worth hangi g into it. Or you will end upike the old guy I just responded too. I’m sure you will continue to mature and look back and laugh at all this…if not, it will suck.

          • NINJA_PUNCH

            If by “That guy” you meant me, then you have again misrepresented my character. I’m not an unhappy person, and considering that my family is largely lower middle class, life in the civilian world has essentially handed itself to me on a silver platter. The way things are going now, I’ll have the mortgage on my house paid off before my 26th birthday, so it seems that we’ll have the claim that our glory days were from 26 onward, in common.

            Now I find it particularly interesting that you chose to bring up the instance of the DI beating you in your first comment. Psychologically speaking, the human mind does not like things that don’t make sense. That in itself should make sense. But one thing that the human mind finds particularly nonsensical is meaningless suffering. People don’t like to think “Jeez, I went through all of that, and it was all for nothing.” It bothers us if what we went through didn’t mean anything. Suffering to obtain something valuable, on the other hand, makes sense to us.
            In hazing rituals, the punishment really is meaningless. Do you really thing a piece of caramel merited that beating? I sincerely doubt it. So how does the brain make sense of meaningless suffering in initiation practices (e.g. boot camp, or “blood striping” when you make NCO)? Quite simply, you distort your view of the organization that hazed to make it appear more valuable. Not consciously, of course, but you do it all the same.
            Lest you think this is nothing but me babbling, this is actually the findings of two different psychological studies: “The effects of severity of initiation on liking for a group” and “Going to college and unpacking hazing: A functional approach to decrypting initiation practices among undergraduates”. Both studies found that those participants who underwent severe initiation practices to become members of a group claimed to value the group more after they’d become members. In both cases the hazed participants distorted their views of the group to make them consistent with the effort they invested to become a member of that group.

            Bearing all of that in mind, I can’t help but wonder how much of your reverence for the marine corps isn’t merely a cognitive distortion that you made so that you could perceive your suffering as meaningful. I really have to ask: Who needs to let go of their pain here? Me or you? I mean… you did come to us…

            Safety and Peace

          • Devil Dawg 223

            I’m done with this banter. I do believe we could easily have a discussion on the different perspectives. But college having and breaking down and rebuilding humans for battle can’t be compared. This is the military, the corps which is in a league of its own. Anyone thinking am some gungho, tatted up recruiting tool has def misinterpreted my original post. One of my points I was trying to get across is the USMC has come along way with protecting the safety and mental health of recruits over the last 20 years. Of course, just like everything in life, there are unusual cases or some bad apples. Hell, I recall some college bamd beating the shit and killing a bandmate in a hazing incident. Not the usual, but shit happens.

            I’m not looking to battle with you, I wish you the best of luck but as you see, I’m not one to jump in here and call everyone a wimp or pussy, non-hacker, etc. I have empathy dude and I actuat went back and edited some of my posts specific because of your age. Ive always said a man, based on my own personal experience makes drastic changes psychologically and emotionally after reaching a ceetain age of lifestyle event. Seems every 4 years starting at 14. Maybe you can relate but done know. I just remember when I hit 30 how my life changed at 14, ,18, (enlisted), 22, 26 and 30+. Marriage, kids, real life, jobs, bills, responsible for a family and little humans, etc builds a person. The years spent in the corps are a little blurry as its been over 25 years ago, but when I was 18, I needed it. That’s all I can say. I don’t think we’re far off from.our thinking as my may need to be edited. But the other dude…I don’t have patience with people like him.. Good luck with your future and hope you understand I don’t wish you illl will. But I do wish you understand the.military and the USMC aren’t for everyone, but do help some. (And I admit, mess up others). But I do still believe that sucking it up for a while at PI or SD mcrd is important just to make sure you make the right decision. If I was asked my first few weeks if I wanted out, I’d be first in line. But we need the Corp too, and they make sacrifices you and I never did. Their lives so I’m very careful not tontread on their memories and graves. Peace and out and nice job on your success as I came out a very lower middle class, blue collar family as well. Whole other story.

          • oldrmf

            As a more balanced and rational 45 year old who spent a number of years in the Marines, I can respect the reasons why you didn’t like it and understand your criticisms of it. The smashed EGA does really offend part of my former mindset, but anybody who has legitimately gone through the system and deployed to the Middle East has earned the right to be a critical as they want. Just understand that previous generations have fought and died for the very symbol you decided to break.
            Having gone to boot camp four years after 1988, maybe I was just lucky enough to have better quality Drill Instructors because they never felt the need to beat us up over eating the “comfort” portion of a Chicken a la King MRE!! ( I remember those older brown plastic MRES- not nearly as good as the ones today, and the Potatoes au Gratin was fucking awful!).
            However, if Devil Dawg’s223 definition of toughness is just to take a beating from a Drill Instructor over eating caramels out of an MRE, then obviously he is an idiot for with type of complex for punishment, and his Drill Instructor was just a bully who made up any trivial excuse he could to beat people who couldn’t fight back!! These sound like very Marine type traits! I could understand something more important- like falling asleep on watch- deserves severe punishment, but not eating a damn caramel!
            Former vs Ex Marine? When you get out, who really gives a fuck about that issue?
            Ninja Punch- I’ll support you as far as you have valid criticisms of how things operate in the Corps, and how it could improve for the 21st Century. You are right not to let it define you. But you have to understand that how would you feel if you were a Christian and somebody decided to smash the Holy Cross in front of you? Rhetorical question, because there is always the First Amendment.
            Devil Dawg 223 – chill the fuck out.

  • Dee

    What can we do if our son was raped by someone while at boot camp? Is there anything we can do legally? Can we force the military to pay for him to get psychological help to deal with it? What about reparations? He was on his way to a lucrative career as a Nuke, (I know this site is for Marines, but I found nothing like this for the Navy)… He really wanted to be a Nuke, talked about it everyday, talked about the Navy everyday… he knew what he was getting into, we are a Navy family… his Dad talked to him about boot camp. WE never expected THIS! What can we do to help him???


      Is your son still in the Navy, is he still in boot camp, or was he discharged from boot camp and sent home? Does he know the name of the rapist?

      If he’s still in, he could probably go through the Navy to locate and bring charges against the sailor in question. If not, you might want to contact a civilian lawyer who is versed in military law to see about trying to bring charges. Actually, on second though, contacting the civilian lawyer would probably be wise either way. The Military tends to become very timid when you start bringing in civilian lawyers. Personally I think that the thought of being humiliated by a civilian lawyer makes them want to cooperate and try to settle things out of court.

      Safety and Peace

      • Dee

        He is still there. He called will be home in 2 to 3 weeks we have not heard anything more from him since. I do not want to address this while he is in, because… lets face it, they are not going to care about my son the way I do, and I am not sure if he knows who it was… he wouldn’t go into details on the phone… I am not sure he is even going to want to talk to me any further about it. He is a man, and men are less likely to come forward with rape charges than a woman! At this point I have to take a wait until he comes home and talks action… and then go from there, but I wanted to know up front… if there is something I can do if he requires additional psychological help. That is my main concern… I am also heart broken for him… for so many things. just heartbroken.

        • NINJA_PUNCH

          I think you’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head. If he doesn’t want to come forward about it, then there’s really almost nothing that you can do… The trick is getting him to understand that he had ought to come forward about it. From there you can start figuring out your options.

          For what little it may be worth, you have my sympathies.

          Safety and Peace

        • StillintheFight

          Contact DoD Safe Helpline for live, one-on-one support and information. The service is confidential, anonymous, secure, and available worldwide, 24/7 by click, call or text – providing victims with the help they need anytime, anywhere:

          Safe Helpline: 1-877-995-5247

          Great Lakes Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Victim Advocate: 847-489-8196
          These resources will provide you and your son a confidential way to speak about the incident(s) with trained personnel as well as weigh the options available for reporting, either confidentially or not. I wish you and your family the best through this difficult time.

  • Dee

    Not everybody is a “warrior” some of us are “nerds”… Think Einstein??? Can you imagine HIM in boot camp? Seriously, not everyone is cut out for the military, and I might add that not all wives are cut out to be military wives! It is a hard life all the way around… It isn’t for everyone, and even the ones that are in it, may not be enjoying it either, so if you get out… just remember this: Along the road of your life, even the best made plans do not always turn out as planned. Many times you will have to move on, and not get hung up on your old plan. You will have to make a new plan and you will have to change your route sometimes many times… the road map through life is littered with many detours. Just remember to every day, wake up and be a better person every day, because in the end… THAT is all that really matters!

  • Dee

    very funny… and very true indeed!

  • Dee

    He’ll be home this Friday or Saturday. We will begin to rebuild a new life for him… and we (my husband & I and his siblings) will be here for him to help him in anyway that we can. He knows we are here for him and he feels safe coming home to work through this on his own terms. Whatever those terms will be will be up to him. I won’t pressure him… this issue is harder maybe for a man to deal with, since they usually get “laughed at” if ever they have the courage to talk about it to someone they think they might be able to trust… I think he will be OK, in the end. We will make a new plan for him… a new dream… and he can slowly forget about this one.

    • oldr

      I’d echo Ninja Punch’s recommendation that you pursue any legal avenue you can to bring the perpetrators to justice, plus demand compensation from the Military. That means convincing your Son to stand up and press charges against the pieces of human garbage that committed this act.
      there is so much Rape Hysteria nowadays involving women- why can’t that same zealotry be applied to Men as well? Your son fully deserves justice for the wrong that was committed on him, and you have the opportunity to hammer the Navy- take it!
      Having been a Marine ( and I played my part until I woke up to the reality that I was just being used by the USMC) I’ve seen how the military works enough that unless you really demand justice, they will do their best to ‘sweep it under the rug’. Some local TV coverage about the Navy’s injustice on the issue wouldn’t hurt.
      Lastly, let me just say that having seen some of the overtly disgusting and sexualized acts of hazing that Marines are capable of, your son has my sympathies, and I hope he gets the justice he deserves.

  • 4merE4

    Goddamn, this site is depressing. I thought it’d be some comedy site, but no… I used to think that maybe I was crazy, that maybe my genuine disdain for the quality of person entering the military now was undeserved. Thankfully, it appears I was justified. What a bunch of whining, bilious, ridiculous, yeast-infected pussies. NOBODY likes boot camp, it’s like that for a reason, you idiots. The military ain’t for everybody. Maybe think about that before standing in the fucking line to dedicate a significant portion of your life to the complete and total ideal of protection of a nation, instead of how cool you’ll look in dress blues to all the high school girls after you graduate.

    • jeremias

      ha-ha whining, bilious, ridiculous, yeast-infected pussies nice set of loaded words it is not a comedy site but with your replies it sure looks like it. Of course NOBODY likes boot camp, of course the military isn’t for everybody. this article my friend shows how to get out of boot camp, because and I’m going to use your own words “The military ain’t for everybody.” and since it is not for everyone those that do not want to be there or who regret their decision to join can find a way to be released while still in early and not make their life or anyone else’s life harder or more miserable. Now your assumption about looking cool in dress blues for all the high schools girls does not apply for the majority of recruits, some sure, but a lot of recruits cant handle boot camp emotionally, mentally or physically and the assumption that it is the fault of the recruit or Marine( while at SOI) and not the fault of or partially the fault of the USMC is ignorant. Also you may have clearly thought it all out before you signed the contract and that is ok, good for you but not all of 18 year old kids really think that shit out before they enlist nor do they have the BIG PICTURE of what their life will be like during their enlistment the only advice they have is that of their recruiter, now like I said earlier, recruiters don’t necessarily lie, they just don’t tell you the whole truth. They behave just like a car salesman. Much of the time, recruiters do actually believe what they say to their prospects. Most are aware, however, that they stretch-or bypass the truth rather frequently. ” You don’t sell cars by talking about the defects.

  • jh

    At first I thought this was a joke. I mean almost anyone who’s at bootcamp wants to get out at some point or the other. After thinking about it, I’m glad this site has this info because the more shitbird recruits get separated in Bootcamp the better. It might save a life or two later on.

    • private_givenofucks

      even then, Drill instructors do everything in their power to keep those very same shitbird recruits, shame that those who want out are forced to stay and those that want in cant.

  • Crazy Diamond

    You really just sound like a disgruntled shitbag.

  • Gunny

    When I was a DI about 5 years ago, I had a recruit that refused to train. He sat down and said “I refuse to train”. He refused to move or do anything he was told. He simply stated “I refuse to train” over and over again. He was sent to RSP and ELS’d.