Hazing doesn’t build character, it breaks and warps you into something nasty

Go to your local pound. See the dogs that have been beaten? See how they’re a combination of scared shitless and willing to tear your throat out if you look at them wrong? Do you think they’re better dogs because they were treated like that? Just like there are better ways to train dogs, there are better ways to train men. The best way is to realize that men are men, and should be treated as such. They signed away years of their lives just like you did, and now they’re willing and eager to become the best of the best. But all too often, that’s not what happens.

It’s one thing to imagine the Jarhead hazing scene, where they pretend to brand him, and then that’s that. It’s something else entirely to live it, to come to the realization that you signed away four years of your life for this, and that there’s nothing you can do about it. It doesn’t stop, it goes on day after day after day after fucking day, and then it keeps going. This isn’t a movie, or a video game, and you don’t have the option to say it’s over unless you want to have a felony following you around for the rest of your life. It usually doesn’t have a purpose other than to entertain or make the guy who’s doing it feel better about themselves or their situation in life. It’s almost always done to you by those you though you’d respect, and who turn out to be utter shit bags. It doesn’t build character, it breaks and warps it into something nasty. It doesn’t build men any more than it builds combat effectiveness, and least of all maturity.

  • R.E.M.F.

    So true. The U.S.M.C. is FULL of petty tyrants, little shits that joined just to get in a position to haze people. Sort of like the kinds of psycho-paths that go into police forces today.

    There is only one solution to the U.S.M.C. problem. SHUT THE MOTHER FUCKER DOWN. Disband it, but have a program to try to unscrew the heads of the victims of the M.C. so that they don’t unleash their insanity on the real world once they are discharged.


    • S.

      I think a better solution is to keep recruiting modern people into the corps. It’s becoming more and more common for kids these days to be more liberal, educated, and just genuinely smarter. Mostly because of communication technology and the internet. I mean, a kid can jump on a video game, play some some dude from Japan, become internet buddies and diversely learn all about japanese culture.

      Kids born into the internet are now joining the corps. They are genuinely more intelligent because of birth timing. It’s just the way it is, And that is a good thing.

      It’s slow, but as long as internet born kids continue to join the marines, it will get better. I guarantee this.

      • Older Marine Vet

        OK- as an older person who saw the rise of computers and the change of electronic communication into the current ‘Internet’ I would say that your statements are a bit of a generalization. Are people genuinely more intelligent because they were born into a time of easy access to volumes of online information ( which has severely degraded the QUALITY OF INFORMATION) and instantaneous communication, which degrades the fact that people no longer have to put some thought and effort into what they say, plus the fact that they are not facing the pressure of having to SAY IT TO PEOPLES FACES??
        I get your basic point, but you must understand that the changes have occurred have not necessarily been for the better, and created more complicated and unnecessary problems that didn’t exist previously. It is not for me to demean young people today and say they are not intelligent – some definitely are, but there seems to be more extremes in those who are hyper educated, and those who are not. Would a Marine Corps career be appealing to the hyper educated? Probably not.

        Previous generations did not have to deal with some of the very negative effects that the changes in technology have brought upon us. I would challenge you to read a science book written in the 1960’s , or a letter written in in the 1890’s, and you may appreciate that the sheer effort of having to research and organize ideas to convey to others tends to favor more intelligent and thoughtful people than those who lazily use a tool to jump to conclusions or reinforce their narrow minded preferences.
        Whether the Internet existed or not, there will always be smart and not so smart people.

        • S.

          My statements are a bit generalized buy I am absolutely 100% correct. Technology breeds more intelligent people. Plain and simple. It’s hard for older people to see it.

          • Older Marine Vet

            You are not 100% correct, but this a subject that has many different facets, and far be it for me to perpetuate a comment war in a forum which has narrow subject matter.
            I can politely agree to disagree with you, which is more civility than you would get from an online “troll”; plus the fact that a stronger opinion could be expressed in one of 10 or more different communication mediums ( Facebook,You tube, Reddit, twitter to start with) that ends up causing more confusion and disinformation. But you created this web site and this argument is not relevant to its mission.
            Technology will not change human nature. How technology is used is a sign of the intelligence of the user.
            Respectfully Submitted.

          • S.

            Technology connects people to each other like never before. It breeds tolerance and diversity. If you remember back 10 years ago, people were WAY more homophobic, racist, afraid of cannabis. Stretch back 20 years and it was even worse. The rise of computers, internet and now pocket computers (cell phones) has connected people in a way like never before. Connecting people encourages tolerance.

            This subject is on topic because the original point was that more intelligent people will continue to join the corps as society becomes more intelligent. That is a big solution to the corps being broken. It’s the terrible people in the corps that makes it terrible.

            14 year old kids today are not anything like they were when I was 14. It’s alien to me. Being hostile, tough, judgemental… these are not popular values of a 14 year old anymore. And in 4 short years, these 14 year olds are going to start joining the military. Sure, the military will use their brainwashing techniques, but outside civilian characteristics always sneak past the conditioning and make their way into marine corps culture.

            Time, spreading awareness and calling bullshit are our best weapons against the marine corps. The marine corps cannot stop the type of people who will join in the future.

            Respectfully giving you a better response than I did last night.

          • Older Marine Vet

            I don’t disagree with some of your statements about connectivity and diversity, and the fact that I am on this forum means that I own a computer ( so am not anti- technology), but I can even go back 30 years and say that there were polarizing opinions of the three issues you raised. But back then we did not have to deal with Identity theft, we were not on an ‘electronic leash’ that compelled us to write electronic messages every minute, nor reply to them ( electronic micromanaging) , and (believe it or not) Reagan and the Democrats got along well!!

            Is a person necessarily smart if they own a computer and spend the majority of their time playing World of Warcraft or looking at online porn, or using it as another tool to enhance their education? Do you really think that the Internet will prevent another war?

            For every advance we make their are always new problems associated with it. And i’d have to say that being a teenager in the early 80’s having parent of the WW2/ 50’s generation we were raised better and society promoted more civility back then. And its a shame you were too young to experience what an adventure and great experience FLYING was on Pan Am. or TWA.

            But in terms of the Marine Corps, with sites like this I think that the hyper educated will do their proper research and decide being a Marine isn’t for them. The Marines may end up getting a less educated( but not stupid) recruit, but the fact that they use such devices will have an affect on their behaviors. Even as an older person I acknowledge the fact that the Marine Corps is very slow to keep up with societal changes.

            But I find it difficult to justify an argument that say, past figures like Leonardo da Vinci, Carl Sagan, George Washington, James Madison or Plato (as random examples) were not smart, intelligent or tolerant simply because they did not have modern day devices available to them.

            I leave you with this thought- as a product how enduring has the art work the Mona Lisa been (centuries) as opposed to computer programs like Visual Basic or COBAL ( life cycle= 10 years max?).

            Some things to think about.

          • Dusty Ayres

            Reagan and the Democrats got along well!!

            Reagan and the Democrats only ‘got along well’ because there was no Fox News or right-wing talk radio (with bellicose solons at the mike hosting them) poisoning the airwaves (and which was a result of Reagan & Co. getting rid of the Fairness Doctrine.)

          • Justwantout

            The Flynn effect. Old Vet isn’t wrong but you’re answer is somewhat accurate. This generation is touted as the age of information. The Flynn effect is the study of the rise in IQ over time as information is more readily available.

    • Dusty Ayres

      That mightwork if we didn’t have to fear an alien invasion of Earth-then we’d need the toughest soliders ever to fight such a war. We might be sorry then.*

      */just kidding