Rants of a Boot Marine

I joined the Marine Corps in January of this year, thinking that it would give me some sort of direction. Ever since I had graduated high school in 2011, I was bored with college, didn’t feel like wasting money going to parties and orgies that my friends were all doing, and wanted something better that just being stuck with the two choices in life that people were making: college or military.

But I felt that I was stuck in a rut and decided with much hesitation to join the Marines due to the crazy part of my mind not wanting to join the pussified Army or Navy. It was a decision I regretted when I stepped on those yellow footprints. Here’s what I discovered in boot camp.

1. The Few and the Proud no longer applies. In my platoon we had two screw ups that could have gotten anyone on the battlefield. These guys should have been either weeded out in MEPS or at least dropped for failure to adapt to the Marine Corps, but somehow the Drill Instructors were crazy enough to let them stay. What does this mean, ANYONE can join, and ANYONE can pass, provide that they can tolerate three months of legalized hazing.

2. Following up on the 1st discovery, boot camp does NOT turn you into a responsible, grown young man. I’ve seen guys turn into selfish individuals willing to steal, screw over, and abuse their authority. While not everyone in my platoon was like that, at least HALF believe it or not, HALF were like them. And parents are blindly repeating the phrase, “joining the military will make your son into a man”. Bullshit.

3. Drill, drill, drill. They can say all the crap that they want about how it creates discipline and team camaraderie. Bullshit, I know people that didn’t take the effort to grow. And how on earth does “right shoulder” arms create discipline? These days, drill instructors focus WAY too much on drill in an effort to get some kind of medal/citation come graduation. Really? You become a hero just because you won final drill and deserve a medal for it? Holy shit, they should mention how much they IT’d all of the recruits just because they couldn’t do an eyes right!

4. Lies and Hypocrisy…….wtf happened to Integrity? Did everyone decide to throw Integrity out of the window in an effort to cover for themselves and look good in the process? Here are a couple of great examples coming from my own senior drill instructor:

The Saturday after Black Friday, there was a kid from a different platoon that hopped the fence next to the airport (I went to Boot Camp at San Diego btw) and got cuffed as a result. Our senior talked about how he was going to be thrown in jail for going AWOL. I actually ran into the kid the next day at church who actually said that he was just talked out of ever doing it again from his senior. 

Our senior lied to us AGAIN about how during the hikes he carried three 30 pound weights in addition to the essential equipment during our hikes at Pendleton. I found out that he only carried pillows that made his pack look big when I was doing Gear Guard (they made me do this frequently since I wasn’t a big screwup).

In the classes, they teach us about how we had to treat any potential enemy with respect should we capture them. But many of the DI’s were bragging about how they poked eyeballs of corpses or how they sliced ears off to collect as trophies from the battlefield. Now this came from a couple instructors who were supposed to teach us on how to handle POW’s if we ever captured any.

Despite all of these crazy things that I discovered that would have given me a reason to want to quit, somehow I decided to stay throughout the Crucible, and graduated with Mike Company in April.

Wanting to talk about what I saw, I ended up appearing on Adam Vs The Man during my boot leave, seeking for some sort of help I suppose you can say before leaving for MCT.

At MCT I discovered the same old problem of do as I say, not as I do. Plenty of Combat Instructors while being somewhat decent, were threatening us with NJP’s if they discovered that we weren’t carrying our full packs but one even said that he just carried nothing but pillows (WTF?!) during our hikes. Not to mention they confiscated many of the tobacco dippers dip while they were openly dipping in front of us students.

I ended up somehow staying, decided to see what other problems I could talk to the outside world about what’s wrong with being inside the Marine Corps, which resulted in me being stuck on Guard Duty after MCT, which is nothing more than forcing 5 groups of two Marines walking around SOI for four hours straight doing nothing but radio checks every 15 minutes. Did I mention many of us went to hiding spots where we did nothing but sleep and shoot the shit while stalking ITB students doing Land Navigation? That’s what happens when you force them to do something that stupid. The only bright side to it was that Guard Duty also meant operating the chow bell, raising Colors, and loading condition 3 and guarding change of command/retirement ceremonies instead of participating in them.

We also had our first taste of mass punishment when on retarded kid somehow fell asleep RIGHT IN THE FUCKING OPEN while guarding audio equipment one night on the parade deck, which resulting in our off base liberty being changed to base liberty. How pissed off can you get especially when you made plans to visit your cousin, or had a girlfriend/wife flying in outside of Camp Pendleton? Holy shit, just beat the crap out of the screwup and let that be a warning to anyone who dares to fall asleep on front post in the future! But screw the base liberty as it was the first time I ever acted belligerent and decided to leave anyways and returned without anyone noticing.

Now at my MOS school, I am here typing this up, wondering when all this bullcrap of easy NJP’s, weekly haircuts, and daily shaves will ever end. I’ve met plenty of individuals who also have thought of this crap, losing their previous motivation, wanting a way to leave in a clean manner (as in getting a decent discharge without dishonorable/oth on it).

I ask of you, how can you get out once you hit the fleet? Do you just apply for conscientious objector or what can you do to discharge yourself?

I know yeah, I am a new Marine and many will say, “well suck it up since you’ll eventually become a Lance Corporal” (contract PFC with bonus language pay here, which means I earn as much as a Lance), “you’re just a boot”, bla bla, but I am totally aware of what’s going on and why so many are hating life in the Marines right now.

It’s definitely a nice title to have if you want respect, discounts, or someone always covering for you when they find out that you’re a Marine, but to live currently in the Corps can definitely make you weaker physically, mentally, and emotionally, and can turn you from some innocent young man into a degenerate, mindless, backstabbing killer.



Submitted by: “Brass Neck”

  • zak Ohler

    The sooner you try to get out the better. I don’t know much, but I do know that.

  • R.E.M.F.

    I feel sorry for you, but that’s what the Marine Corp is. One fucked up organization. I encourage you to get the fuck out of the suck, but you must realize that there is no integrity or honor, anywhere in the United States.

    This Capitalist system imposed on us worships MONEY as GOD. The people that create the money (therefore have no need for it) are your OWNERS.

    The rich white collar creeps support the system because they suck off it.

    The poor working people are reduced to slashing each other’s throat for a little money so they can eat.

    The destitute, with no prospect for work or a future, turn to crime in an effort to survive. They are eventually imprisoned and worked as slave labor in horrible conditions.


    But I digress…

    The conscientious objector approach will work. Get yourself a bunch of anti-war books. Also get books supporting communism. Then go to the base legal office and talk to them and tell them you are now a conscientious objector and communist. Tell them you can not live in a military that oppresses people around the world for Capitalism.

    (Read up a bit so you can throw them a good line of bullshit.)

    You’ll be out in no time. And don’t feel badly about it! The Marine Corps is a disgraceful organization and they are IN FACT the POLICE FORCE for American Capitalist/Imperialist Expansionism.

    Good luck. Get out.

    • S.

      The outside world is not nearly as bad as the mc.

      And not all capitalists are out to use you up and spit you out.

    • Brass Neck

      Sorry, I’m no communist, especially if my father had once fought them in the jungles.
      But that’s what everyone’s been recommending me from Smedley Butler, to Adam Kokesh: get out as a CO since war is pretty much an outdated concept, not to mention the fact that it’s all for profit. I’m sure the situation going on in Ukraine, Gaza, and Iraq, is like the works of Dr. Moriarty from Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows. The plot of a few sinister men to instigate a worldwide conflict all for a slice of money.

  • mmafan3 .

    I went to MCRD as well, back in ’83. There were nights I would look at those planes on the tarmac and wishing I was on one back home, but I toughed it out. I don’t know whether this was true or just plain bullshit. The Drill instructors told us that anyone caught hopping the fence would be shot. Probably another lie, lol.

    • Brass Neck

      Yes, I remember the airline torture sessions each time we went out do those jokes of a PT sessions (not to mention the joke of a MCMAP test).
      The shoot to kill at the fence is a lie, and so is going to jail just for trying to quit boot camp, getting your legs amputated because you rolled it during a hike, or getting dropped cause you got hurt during the Crucible.

  • David

    If you got language school, go do that since that is free college credits. Depending on the unit there could be no BS or a shit load. When I was a DI I had the same problem with fellow DI’s that failed to lead by example and this was 96 – 98 and those were the same issues that existed back in 81 when I went through. I can be reached at usmcdv1963@yahoo.com

    • O’Neill

      May I ask why did you decide to be a drill instructor in that era? I thought those in the drill field were usually the hardcore Marine guys but kudos to giving a scoop to helping this kid!

    • S.

      I removed your email address because we do not allow posting of personal information. This is for your protection. If you want to give people a way to contact you, you can do so through our forum PM system so you can give them your info privately.

  • staystrong

    I refused to train at SOI and when I was in legal platoon I always wondered what the hell was the point of keeping MCT graduates as glorified security guards at Lima. I would always wave like an idiot to the guard at front to keep him from falling asleep after I noticed one of them knocking out. Just another Dog and Pony show I suppose. Question: Why do you still want an honorable or general discharge? If you have a desire to keep some benefits I suppose that is fair but if you want to avoid an OTH just because of all the scary things the instructors told you would happen to OTH recipients, let me assure you that the OTH means jack **** in the civilian world. Hell, it still gives you veterans priority registration at some colleges and independent student status on the FAFSA, which means more money to you.

    Now as for you leaving in your MOS school I have few ideas. Other Marines on this site ought to know more details, but I suppose you could always get caught smoking weed if you want to leave that badly? Or just stay in and use VEERP? You can always go the conscientious objector route but if you really do not believe in it from a philosophical perspective as compared to just a desire to separate; I ask you not to do it for the sake of those who do believe. Good luck to you Brother!!! The civilian side will be here waiting for you! Good luck!

  • Boo

    The problem is the USMC is trying to view itself as a ‘miracle worker.’

  • Mario A Avalle

    Dude, I’ve been in since 2000. You sound a lot like I, and a lot of my friends did then. You have to remember that the military is quite simply a numbers game. All those “weak” dudes that made it through basic, yeah, I’m pretty sure the Drill Instructors didn’t want to graduate. BUT, it’s a numbers game.

    One piece of advice I can give you is, just like college, focus your energy on what you need to know to be as proficient in your MOS as you can, AND, do your damnedest to stay in shape. Toe the line man, do what you have to do with out getting cast in the damning light of failure. You’re going to be around for 4 years or so. It seems like a long time, but, if you focus your energy on learning and just doing the right things, you’ll probably find that will make you a better Marine that 90% of the guys you meet in the fleet, which, will make your life SO MUCH BETTER in the near and distant future.

    I’m sorry you have already seen the bullshit that is the military in regards to it’s advertisements. But, man, there are a lot of us who HAVE worked hard to make this shit hole job the best that we can. Find a good Corporal or Sergeant who cares about what they do in the day to day and try to mold yourself after him or her.

    Don’t do anything stupid like drugs or get in trouble with the law. That’s just gonna make your life harder.

    I’m a 14 year vet old guy who’s been in the infantry for way too long. I’m tired, and broken. But it’s my hope that YOU will be able to do some good things with your time in the Marine Corps that you can be proud of and look back on and smile. My proudest moments are being an honest guy who did his best while leading young guys like you in dangerous places. I’ve made plenty of mistakes along the way, but even with as much as I hate this organization, the guys I’ve served with, the places I’ve gone, they mean something to me.

    I think you’ll find the same, just do what YOU have to do to stay outta the lime light, and you’ll see brother. You’ll see.

    Take care man.

  • After The Hangover

    you don’t like college… you don’t like the Marine Corps… so what do you like? what are you going to do just quit EVERY time you don’t like something… be an ADULT. that means going to a job you may or may not like to EARN MONEY. I am not saying be a Marine but be something and stick to it. If you think working at a civilian corporation is any better it’s NOT 90% of the time (unless you own your own business or are lucky enough to get a job/manager that you truly love). What you are complaining about is simply life. Grow up and get over yourself

    • Older Marine Vet

      I say to you- get off your friggin’ High Horse! Most young adults (17- 22 rough age ranges) really don’t know what they want to do with their lives and LIFE is more about evolving, adapting, changing and reinventing yourself when need be!!
      I seriously doubt that YOU have ever stuck to one thing during the course of your life, and to work a job you hate just to earn money is not a recipe for long term happiness or satisfaction!!
      In terms of the Marine Corps, it CAN reform its personnel management systems to allow more flexibility in duty assignments, MOS designation, lateral moves, plus allow easier exit routes for people unsuited for it. A smaller, lighter more elite force like the Royal Marines have such systems.
      But no- the USMC is too stagnant and bureaucratic! It has too much of a vested interest in drawing in low paid wage slaves, and keeping the bulk of its force in the junior ranks so it can squeeze more out them for less!
      The sign of an adult is to walk away from a bad business contract or bad work situation. As a mature adult I have done this and seen other executives do exactly the same thing!
      The Corps could allow every Marine to be audited two years into their initial contract, and if they didn’t like it or were just unsuitable, they could ‘discontinue’ but lose out on long term benefits. Somebody who hates it after a year could stick it out for one more year, as opposed to dreading another three!

  • billythekidjackson

    you can put in for a verp, that is what alot of my friends did. you can “suck i up” but that means putting up with 4 years of bullshit. that pay sucks, it doesnt get better and any one who says it does is high. The fastest way out is becoming a ragging acholic and go to saco 4 times and tell them that you drink cause of the corps. this will land you with a medical discharge. and you can go about you life free of this enfernal hell they call a “brotherhood”

    • Grammar Nazi

      *You, *VEERP, *a lot, *You, *”suck it up”, *The, *doesn’t, *because, *This, *And, *your, *”brotherhood”.

  • Don’t support dumb laws

    This is sad. DIs and SDIs are partially graded on how many recruits graduate. Even if you are the shittiest recruit and the SDI and DIs don’t want to deal with you, they still need approval from higher authority to drop the recruit. It is sad the Corps just takes whoever now.

    We had a fucker who fell asleep on firewatch all the time and still graduate. Thank god he wasn’t in my unit. Another dude kept failing the PFT.

  • Stephen

    I hope you’re exaggerating or are just another dumb boot. It’s seriously not that bad, and I have a more recent experience than most of the people posting. I just got out last year, at three years, and while the first few months were rough and mostly shitty, I enjoyed my time in overall and were I able, I’d re-enlist in a heartbeat.

    • ohreally

      How did it feel contributing nothing to the national security of the United States and wasting thousands of dollars of what ought to have been poor people’s money? I also like how you think your time spent in an undemocratic nonsense organization was somehow enjoyable. Do you know what a good life is?……….

      • Semper standby

        You guys don’t even have it bad. Stop being a bitch and man the fuck up. Your not an 03 as you clearly stated you went to mct. Your day to day life isn’t bad. I’m in my fifth year right now and even after all the bullshit in garrison and watching your boys get hurt or killed in front of you you realize your not doing it for you. Your whole article is all about you being selfish and moaning about something completely irrelevant. Yeah we all have wanted out early at one point or another but you gotta suck it up. You signed a binding contract and if you try to pull the conscientious objector card I hope they fucking fry you

        • ohreally

          “You guys don’t even have it bad”

          The vast majority of Marines who fucking leave the Marine Corpse at the minimum time spent needed to get their benefits and run testifies that your opinion is a minority one. It also doesn’t follow that because your subjective standard of “bad” makes it seem that other people don’t have it as “bad” as you that therefore that those people don’t have it “bad”. All in all, the shit still reeks, it still stinks, it’s still shit. Something that’s bad by definition is something that ought to be changed for the good, pog or grunt. It just so happens that the entire Corpse is a wasteful second standing land army that the Untied States government maintains out of pride. Sure as hell doesn’t mean it’s not a waste anymore, just because your life in it didn’t seem “as”, pointless as others. It’s still pointless, it’s still bad.

        • ohreally

          “Stop being a bitch and man the fuck up”

          Oh look it’s the antiquated, bigoted, sexist idea that women somehow have a more cowardly mode of existence then men do. How typical of a Marine. Now to use your own language against you for a time; how does not wanting to follow stupid orders or live lives designed to make *other* people’s cutting scores, mean that “I’m” the bitch in this situation? Isn’t that what bitches do, take shit from others all the time and brainwash themselves that this makes sense and is righteous? Now what group of people does that sound like?

        • ohreally

          “Your day to day life isn’t bad”

          Way to contradict the VERY FIRST THING you wrote in your tract of writing, teufeul deufel. Whatever happened to pogs having it bad, but not having it as bad as you? And how exactly do you know this? Have you had the experiences that cause the vast majority of Marines to fucking leave this grand Department of the Navy right as their first enlistment ends?

          “I’m in my fifth year right now and even after all the bullshit in garrison and watching your boys get hurt or killed in front of you you realize your not doing it for you.”

          Nope, you do it because an old man with shiny stuff on his collar ordered you too, just as thousands of other Marines have in the hundreds of years of wars BESIDES WORLD WAR 2, that Marines fought in to advance imperialist and outrightly stupid aims. Research the Banana Wars and who executed the abolitionist John Brown.

        • ohreally

          “Yeah we all have wanted out early at one point or another but you gotta suck it up”

          I will suck it up when the Marine Corps realizes that the fuck fuck games, the mass punishments, the Un-American deference to chain of command in ALL respects, and the wasteful expenditures of the Corpse all don’t deserve existence. Thus I will suck it up until the *Marine Corpse* as we know it does not exist.

          “You signed a binding contract and if you try to pull the conscientious objector card I hope they fucking fry you”

          Nope, it’s not a binding contract thank God (that is the DEFINITION of slavery by the way, good job in definitional illiteracy), and there exist many ways to get out, as noted on this outstanding website. Good job for also being so cocksure in your assumptions that you managed to think that I was the author of this piece. Just goes to show how many people share this opinion that you think the same person could write my comments and the article.

  • guest

    Stumbled upon this site….I feel like I’m reading the diaries of little girls who are upset because their parents wouldn’t let them go out after hours or they didn’t get the birthday present or Christmas gift they wanted. Yeah shit sucks, but grab your balls and keep your sad stories to yourselves. Don’t like it? Move on. Don’t convince other people who might do good things not to join. Chances are you probably went through boot camp barley noticed or even as a shit bag, same through SOI and as a boot in the fleet. You probably have a mediocre PT score, talk and look like a timid bitch and complain and wine about anytime you have to do anything. You show your ass because let’s face it your crying on this site and your seniors see you as a pussy complaining about little shit that, to them would have been easy back in their day. So no shit your experience sucks. You have no ambition or goals in the Corps so you’re not trying hard to reach anything except getting out early. Fact is you signed the contract and if you didn’t know what you were getting into, we’ll you fucked up. Not saying it’s the best job in the world, cause more often times than not it sucks, but it is, as with anything else, what you make of it.

    • S.

      We are going to keep doing what we do and continue to grow our following. Thanks for being a shining example of what we are talking about.

    • freeatlastfreeatlast

      Over the four years of my enlistment, my average PFT score was 291, my average CFT was 296. I never shot below expert and had a first class swim qual. I had 17 MCIs done by the fourth month of becoming a lance, followed by twelve book reports over the following 3 years for all the good they did me. I had my CAR, a NAM, a cert com and an admittedly bullshit letter of commendation. I spent my enlistment in Oki and the rest in Afghanistan and training. I was a guide in Boot Camp for a while and a squad leader for the rest and in SOI (I could run fast and do a fuck load of pull-ups which made me a good leader). I don’t expect for a second that this list of “accomplishments” will impress anyone, I just want you to realize that your offhanded discounting of the issues raised on this site as the pitiful whimpering of shit bags is exactly what makes the Marine Corps “not the best job in the world cause more often times than not it sucks”.

      I call bullshit on your oft used phrase “it is what you make of it”. When your car’s run into a swamp you can spin your wheels all you want but you’re only going to do is sink in deeper. Promotions in the Marine Corps aren’t based off of MOS proficiency like the other branches, after you max out your P/CFT and rifle scores you get to twiddle your thumbs up your ass till your TIS/G raises your score to the promotion level. If that doesn’t appeal to you, you can always pull that green weenie out your ass and start blowing that bitch like a big boy because if your SNCOs like you you’re golden.

      Depending on your MOS, it may be mathematically impossible to be promoted in your first enlistment if it’s not done meritoriously. Depending on your SNCOs, you may have to prove your devildogginess through stabbing your platoon mates in the back repeatedly and publicly. If you’re willing to turn on your peers like a rabid fucking dog, your time in the lower ranks may quickly be over. That may be why so many “seniors” look down on the pittances of problems in the lower ranks; their time in the lower ranks was quickly ended by their understanding superiors through meritorious promotion after trading their honor for an assumed position of authority.

      Now that I’m out, I enjoy nothing more than convincing others not to make the same fucking mistake I did in trusting that recruiter to keep his word. The funniest thing is that once you get out, it actually is what you make of it, and that’s why
      seemingly ¾ of Marines Re-enlist. You can talk about grabbing my balls all you want, I enjoy working for companies that actually care how good I am at my job and how efficiently I accomplish tasks. I attend school full time and still make more money a month than I ever did in the Marine Corps. I don’t have to listen to alcoholics tell me not to drink, a literal baby killer and wife beater tell me that I’m not living up to ethical standards, or have to hear hard ass bad ass jack ass
      motherfuckers like you tell me how easy I have it and how much harder you had
      it x years ago. I don’t have to spend my time swallowing my pride and listening to my honor and principles get questioned by those who have none.

      I also don’t have to pretend to be intimidated by a fuckwit who happened to be promoted before me because, for some mysterious reason, I did my job better than him and I got his job after a few weeks. I know it sounds like voodoo, but I didn’t have to prove that I knew how many and what types of ear rings are allowed to be worn by females in uniform to be promoted in less than a few fucking years. I also didn’t have to publically humiliate my co-workers to get in the good graces of my almighty overlords.

      As to my lack of ambition in the Marine Corps, I fully intended to make the Marine Corps a career. I wasn’t expecting a rose garden, I wanted to be one of the few the proud, I wanted to fight with and be a part of the best of the best, I swallowed the hype hook line sinker and pole. I expected a combat MOS, I got signed onto a contract that held about 15 jobs, and I was promised that I’d get that one right there in the middle. Just ignore the rest, they don’t count. I got locked into a job for four years that I hadn’t known existed before enlisting. Oh, I could still go MARSOC, I only had to wait two years and the re-enlist for an additional five to six years for the opportunity to attempt the indoc. Yea, I fucked up, and my gullible ass is to blame for it. I accept that, and I am moving on. I won’t keep quiet
      about life in the Marine Corps now that I’m out though, that’s one more thing
      that your beloved disorganization got wrong; there’s a real difference between
      sucking up hard times and moving forward, and being a timid bitch who doesn’t
      speak up for himself and against the legitimate problems he sees. Keeping quiet and ignoring the problems you see around you is not being a man, it’s being a coward.

      • S.

        Article time!

        • freeatlastfreeatlast

          Thanks man, could you edit that “when your car gets caught in a swamp” line? It should say “When your car runs into a swam, you can spin your wheels all you want but you’ll only sink in deeper”.

        • freeatlastfreeatlast

          Thanks man, could you edit that “when your car gets caught in a swamp” line? It should say “When your car runs into a swam, you can spin your wheels all you want but you’ll only sink in deeper”.

    • ohreally

      You criticize the undemocratic waste that is the Maween Corpse?
      *insert ad hominem here*

    • R.E.M.F.

      Hey Guest,

      You are a LOSER! We are laughing at you! You just better hope you don’t run into some really crazy person in your beloved Corps that gets your raving-lunatic self KILLED.

    • BrassNecked14

      Never was a shitbag. How can I be one if the DI always picked me to gear guard, iron drill cammies, and doing other stupid tasks when all the recruits were getting IT’ed? Heck, my Killhats were surprisingly glad to see me when I went back to the depot once to pick up/drop off brand new Marines at the airport and I don’t even like them one bit.

      And dude, chill out, you sound angrier than my Dike NCO

    • Dear Leader

      LOL! This website is BEYOND hilarious. Its chalked full of faggots who are looking for reasons not to join, and faggots who didn’t even know what they were signing up for to begin with. Just look at all the fucking butthurt that is going down here in the comments, its INSANE LOL! They must know that they are pussies, they wouldn’t get so upset when someone doesn’t agree with their little stories.

      • freeatlastfreeatlast

        I wish I was a bad ass like you.

      • freeatlastfreeatlast

        I have to ask, when you’re mother’s not catching you looking at pictures of shemales ejaculating (you should probably delete that comment) were you or have you ever enlisted?

        • Dear Leader

          LOL!! No, I won’t delete that comment, your sense of humor is that of a rock, maybe that’s why you are so butthurt and mad all the time? I AM enlisted thank you very much. Sorry you hate your life, but maybe the problem is with you, and not others.

        • Dear Leader

          Oh and buddy, I’ve got three friends who went to basic recently. ONE was a HUGE asshole to everyone, dude came out happy as fuck, me and him workout all the time and the dude is such a cool guy to be around. He loves his life. The other two are happy, they aren’t as badass and happy as the one dude though :p

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            Sounds about right, if you’re willing to publicly stab your peers in the back the Marines can be a breeze. Also, in my experience, the dick of the platoon almost always attracts a bitch boy or two that follows in his footsteps. Something I’ve noticed, the posts on what’s wrong with the fleet are left pretty much untouched, while the posts on boot camp are crawling with trolls like you. I then have to assume that you’re a boot reservist whose biggest military accomplishment is pwning newbfags on counterstrike.

            Out of curiosity though, what would you do to address the broken PT system in the fleet, the check-in-the-box mass passing practices of boot camp, or the exodus of the overwhelming majority of personnel out of the Marine Corps after their first enlistment?

          • StillintheFight

            Just out of curiousity, what would you guess to be the current attrition rate at Parris Island, and what would you consider to be an appropriate attrition rate to clear the mass passing stigma?

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            This is fairly recent:


            In a nut shell, of the services and their relative passing rates for basic/boot (%):

            Air Force: 92.9
            Marines: 88.3
            Army: 86.4
            Navy: 86

            It’s not necessarily that I want to see x% pass or fail, but when the passing rate of the “elite” branch is higher than the Army or Navy, something stinks.

            Take a cursory look at the entry level training of the Royal Marine Commandos, and you have an idea of what I was expecting and would like to see replicated in Marine boot camp:


            This site cites a roughly 66.7% success rate for Royal Marine Commandos, that’s more along the lines of what I’d like to see realistically. From there, more specialized selection processes could go to greater extremes. I’m making a video series where I’m going to cover this stuff that I’m going to post to youtube. I have differing levels of radicalism in my ideas; I don’t realistically expect most of them to be followed, but I argue they would be improvements all the same. I also have what I feel are readily implementable ideas which wouldn’t take much changing and I think could make a difference, such as the planned incentive-based PT plan I’ve brought up before.

            In my opinion, separating the Officers and Enlisted in selection training furthers an us-and-them mentality that detracts from mission effectiveness. I’d like to see the selection and follow-on training of Officers and Enlisted take place together, much like how the SEALs do things. I’d like to see the Marine Corps be a smaller, more elite organization based nearly exclusively around combat MOS’s. I’d like to see easier lateral movements, and the subsequent freedom to attend the indocs for Special Operations forces service-wide if you can meet the criteria. I’d like to see the selection of Officers in the Marine Corps allow for more enlisted members enter their ranks based on demonstrated merit without the need of a college degree. I’d like to see a promotion system that takes MOS proficiency into account. But yea, dancing on dreams here.

          • StillintheFight

            Those are some pretty solid points, and I have thought similarly along most of them over the years. 88.3% is about right…this year, Parris Island is roughly around 91.5% for males and 84.5% for females over the past year… so about the same as 2006. I think the expansion of the Delayed Entry Program accounts for some of the attrition reduction since 1998…that, and two wars. Pressure for throughput drastically increased from 2005-2009 but has subsided…
            Not playing point-counter-point with you, but I think a substantial influencer on recruit training attrition numbers is the accession qualifications. By and large, the air force has the tightest standards for enlistment. The army has the loosest. Yes, I’m making some generalizations right now, but pay attention to army boot camp graduation rates over the next 18 months…it’s going to appear “harder” to graduate from army boot camp more and more until service leaders apply throughput pressure on the basic training commanders. Why? The army is missing it’s recruiting goals this year and is looking for quantity at this point. It’ll directly correlate. I guess where I’m going with this is that the air force does a better job of screening prior to boot camp, but the Marine Corps, despite all the hate and discontent on here about recruiters, does pretty well also. (That isn’t to say that there aren’t plenty of recruits who shouldn’t be there… just not as many as there could be or potentially used to be)

            I’m a huge fan of the British Royal Marines, and I’ve worked with them several times overseas – in training and combat. I have friends who’ve done exchange tours with Commandos, and they have generally great things to say. The ability to plateau at capability yet remain in service is great…i.e. the terminal platoon sergeant who is a really good damn platoon sergeant. I despise the “move up or move out” model that moves you up based on time. The new SECDEF has ordered a review of the promotion system. I personally favor decentralization of promotion boards, allowing them to be conducted locally – 4-5 boards per rank simultaneously based on geography… and promote based on capability in and out of MOS…and allow cross training to retain and promote the best leaders. Just like officers have the 800X MOSs and can fill a variety of jobs, enlisted Marines should be able to do the same thing. But, back to the Royal Marines, at roughly the size of two Marine regiments, the significantly smaller end strength provides for a lot of options the Marine Corps doesn’t have.
            I don’t entirely agree with your comments about officers and enlisted training together, because the qualification standards are so different…31 AFQT ASVAB to enlist vs. 74 AFQT ASVAB (or qualifying ACT/SAT) to commission; 2 pullups/44 crunches/13:30 1.5 mile run to enlist (males), 19s FAH/44 crunches/15:00 1.5 mi (females) or average PFT scores in the upper 270s – 280s to be selected for OCS in recent years. I do tend to think that boot camp should be at least one shade closer to OCS with a focus on decision-making… it would set an expectation earlier and begin a culture shift that would make the Corps more effective (but would take time and hurt a lot of feelings during the evolution…). I also feel very strongly about the benefits of TBS…but maybe a combined first phase…something that demonstrates that officer or enlisted, everyone starts together… and then the officers get taken back to Quantico for the rest of OCS/TBS. I tend to agree that we should commission more prior service Marines. The Naval Academy swelled from 16.67% of the graduation class to ~25% now commissioning into the Marine Corps, and I think at least 4-5% of that excess should have been given back to programs like MCP, ECP, and MECEP. I prefer to see demonstrated merit in conjunction with a bachelor’s degree.
            Just some thoughts… I don’t think it’s ‘broken’ per se, I just want to see a continued push for more efficiency and common sense.

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            Thanks for responding with a thought out and reasoned post, you’ve brought things up that I’m looking forward to going over. I’m sorry it’s taking me so long to respond here, but time is a bit tight right now. I’ll be responding in detail as soon as I get some time to do so.

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            Alright, I finally have some time to myself and can properly respond to your post. I’ll go from top to bottom as best I can; starting with your cited percentages of boot passing separated by sex. My most recent source is from 2006, and I would like a more recent one if I could get it. Where were you able to come by these figures? I am not sure how much the expansion of the DEP and accession qualifications have influenced the passing rate of boot camp, and I would more readily point to the two wars you cited.

            Size of the Marine Corps (active duty, by decade)

            Beginning: 196,956
            End: 171,154

            Beginning: 171,154
            End: 204,153

            Source: http://www.marines.com/history-heritage/timeline

            This spike is a bit misleading, as the size of the active USMC in August of 2005 was about 178,000. In early 2007, President Bush approved the forming of three new Marine infantry battalions and their necessary supporting structure, and the increasing of the active size of the USMC by 27,000 to an end goal of 202,000 by 2011 under the Grow the Force initiative.


            As of July of 2010, the active strength of the USMC stood at 203,075, having surged by over 25,000 active personnel in only three years.

            This is the pressure on throughput that you cited, and it should be noted what happened to the active sizes of the Air Force and Navy during this same period. The Grow the Force initiative was meant to grow the active components of the Army and Marine Corps, which bore the brunt of the fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. While the Marines surged in active size by over 25,000, and the Army by over 50,000 over the same period of time, the total active size of the US Military as a whole grew by only 5,814 personnel (globalsecurity.org). This is due to the Air Force and Navy reducing their active sizes dramatically in only three years:

            Size of the US Air Force and Navy (active personnel)
            Air Force: 359,300
            Navy: 365,900

            Air Force: 331,700 (27,600 personnel reduction in 3 years)
            Navy: 324, 239 (41,661 personnel reduction in 3 years!)

            Source (again): http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/end-strength.htm

            These figures correlate with my experience enlisting with the USMC, and being on RA in the same office a few years later. The Air Force recruiters would literally come in for a few hours and just leave, there was a year long waiting period for most of their contracts. The Marines were there all day, and were constantly pulling guys in who really shouldn’t have been there in the first place. I can’t tell you how many times I heard a recruiter say “I just want you to be a Marine” and proceed to counsel some sap to conceal medical history, get a waiver for some past crime, or push for that third pullup. When I went to MEPS for my entrance physicals, the Gunnery Sergeant that was running the physical examination straight up told us “I just want to see you try your best to complete the IST, they can fix you in Boot”. The other poolie I was with almost couldn’t even do that, but he passed.

            I would argue that this reduction in size has directly correlated with an increase in the overall quality of the active force of both the Navy and Air Force, as the surge in manpower has likewise led to a general reduction in quality in both the Army and Marine Corps. It’s not that the Marines aren’t still attracting many great guys, they’re also attracting a lot of dead weight, and they haven’t been doing anything to weed this out.

            This is the foundation of the problems I saw endemic throughout the Marine Corps during my time in. The Royal Marines, which I cited previously, has an active force size of 7,760 personnel. As you noted, their small size allows them the luxury of being selective in their enlistment selection processes. Still, I don’t see why the Royal Marine Commandos selection pass rate of approximately 66.7%, which is roughly matched by the male pass rate of USMC OCS, can’t be brought to bear on enlisted Marines. I agree with Older Marine Vet’s depressingly cynical observation that the Marine Corps sees its enlisted by and large as wage slaves.

            As to the SECDEF ordering a review of the promotion system:


            This is absolutely astounding to me, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

            “[We] have to look at ways to promote people based not just on when they joined, and even more on their performance and talent,”

            “Carter warned against the insular mindset that can make the military
            resistant to change. “The Pentagon can be a pretty closed five-sided
            box, so we need to think outside of it, and we know that,” Carter said.”

            I agree that the “move up or move out” model has led to a number of qualified personnel to be forced out of service, it’s also led to a number of incredibly incompetent personnel to be forced out as well. This relates back to the sheer size of the active USMC, and its subsequent reliance on one-size-fits-all rules and a draconian bureaucracy that’s been expanded to meet the needs of its expansion. Were the USMC to be a smaller, more selective force in the first place, it wouldn’t have to deal with its personnel in this way. I’d point now to how the MOS selection process for officers in TBS has changed, stepping away from the the one-size-fits-all process towards an individualized selection process:


            This relates as well to your final comment that the Marine Corps is pushing for more efficiency and common sense, I just want to see it move faster and in the right direction. This also relates to the heavy handed treatment of enlisted personnel in Okitraz. Anyone who’s been there for more than a few months in the last few years will know what I’m talking about.

            I don’t know very much about how promotion boards are currently conducted, and how your proposed decentralization and 4-5 boards per rank simultaneously based on geography would be different than how it is currently conducted, could you write more on this? As to the current general method of promoting enlisted Marines based off of their MOSs cutting scores irrespective of MOS proficiency; as opposed to the Air Force’s mass percentage availability for promotion across all MOSs, I’ve pointed out in the past the the USMC is the only branch to not use an MOS proficiency test. I don’t know how this affects other services, but my MOS was fairly technical, and I observed a depressingly disturbing lack of technical proficiency (myself included at times) among Marines in my field. Plus, come promotion to Cpl, many of my peers simply stopped working altogether in favor of delving into the sea of paperwork the Marine Corps seems to have spawned for the sole purpose of giving its personnel something to do. Working with and seeing the difference in the craftsmanship of Seabees and Marine combat engineers really struck it home with me that the removal of MOS proficiency as a direct factor in promotion really does hurt the USMC in a bad way.

            In regards to the billet 800X MOSs of officers, and how that might translate to enlisted members as well, I agree wholeheartedly. The USMC already has this system in place for its shiny staff, offering the same program to its enlisted probably wouldn’t require a massive change in business as usual, and would aid in retention of some of its best.

            That Boot should be a shade closer to OCS with a focus on decision-making, YES! The USMC spends three months and tens of thousands of dollars beating a “do what you’re told, don’t think” parade deck mentality into its enlisted; and then sends them through a 59 training day SOI if they’re grunts, or half that if they’re not, where they’re supposed to shake off the drill mentality in a few weeks and master field craft. From personal experience, SOI was a chaotic mess composed of buddy rushes, field days, and man-child Combat Instructors. Older Marine Vet’s about covered it in his previous posts. SOI could really do with a revamp, with an emphasis on not treating its students like recruits. I agree that such a change in both SOI and Boot would lead to much bitching, but that it’s a truly essential change that would make a real change in retention of the best.

            This rolls into what I’d like to see the Commandant propose, a “treat your Marines like Marines” program. Every enlisted rank in the Marine Corps seems to be composed of guys trying to step on the guys beneath them to bolster themselves up. The poisonous us-and-them mentality throughout the ranks is perpetrated in the name of avoiding fraternization, while the true fraternization of favoritism that’s inevitable in any organization continues unopposed. All this avoiding fraternization nonsense leads to is a toxic work environment, lack of trust and camaraderie within units, and an overall drop in mission-effectiveness. Instead of one team one fight, we get NCOs bitching about SNCOs, bitching about Officers, bitching about “juniors”, bitching about everything and bearing the brunt of the burden. The proverbial shit rolls down the hill, and lands squarely on the shoulders of those who have the least experience dealing with said shit.

            I like your suggestion of ensuring both Officers and Enlisted begin together in some kind of initial training. The SEALs have been doing this for years, and don’t seem to have suffered due to it. While I recognize the disparity in the entrance requirements of Boot and OCS, I would like to see the entrance requirements raised across the board, and see the difference in standards based on gender abolished. I have no problem with females serving in any MOS, I have no problem with sexual orientation, gender, race, religion or lack thereof of any potential Marine. I just care if they can meet and EXCEED the impartial qualification standards that aren’t adjusted to facilitate their entry and retention based on standards of political correctness. There was a Gunnery Sergeant I respected during my time in, who treated his men like men, and so wasn’t well liked by his peers. He related his experience of being called along with all other SNCOs on base to the base theater. When the doors had been closed, the Officer at the front told them all that there was a dearth of “Pacific Islanders” in CWO positions, and so if anyone there could prove that ethnicity and submit a CWO package on the spot, they would be guaranteed into the CWO program. That, he said, was the point at which he lost his respect for the Marines.

            As to the number of Naval Academy grads commissioning in the Marines, I remember reading a study a few years ago which looked at the retention rate of Officers based on their commissioning rout. I can’t find it now, but there was a direct disparity between first-commissioning retention for ECP/MECEP and the Naval Academy. The Naval Academy commissioned officers were much more likely to leave after one term. It makes sense then for the USMC to focus more specifically on commissioning its ranks through these programs, and I’m surprised to see this spike from the Naval Academy. I think this stems from the assumption that Naval Academy grads are the best our Nation has to offer in terms of service members. This builds off of the plain idiotic requirement that ALL commissioned officers have a bachelors degree. I had a number of Officers over me who were plain shit. One in particular really got under my skin, I don’t know what his degree in MEDIEVAL ART (I shit you not) from a State University did for him in terms of leadership, but I can assure you not much. I don’t see why having an engineering degree shouldn’t be a bonus if you want to commission as an engineer, but the overwhelming majority of Officers I met had liberal arts degrees. I don’t want to disparage getting a liberal arts degree, but what the fuck does that have to do with leading Marines in combat?

            Finally, to close this off, I remember talking to a Sergeant Major who was former RECON. We were talking about the peace time Marine Corps, and he remembered an inspection by some officer of his unit. The Officer was furious that the RECON Marines were using zip ties to hang their gear in lieu of the standard issue alligator clips everyone else was using. The reason for this was that those Marines were in and out of sea water constantly, and so the alligator clips literally rusted off of them. The Officer didn’t care, and forced them to use the inferior alligator clips, because everyone had to be the same. The Marine Corps is continuously pushing for more efficiency and common sense, but there’s still so much it could do to improve itself that I don’t see happening any time soon if these issues aren’t raised. That’s what I see this site doing, bringing awareness to the many problems at the enlisted level straight from the horses mouth.

          • StillintheFight

            It’ll take me a minute (i.e. days) but I’ll get through a response. Great points.

          • Dear Leader

            What? Are you ok? I said nothing about anyone stabbing their friends in the back… I don’t have time to post on every dumb thread on this website kid, lol. I only expressed how fucking hilarious I thought all you punks were. I’m no reservist, and broken PT system? The reason a lot of Marines don’t re-enlist is simple, its not something you want to be doing your whole life. I had no clue you were this delusion. I urge you to seek help. I BARELY play counterstrike, I make money off CS go lounge because I know how to use a keyboard, lol, don’t over complicate things. Your level of butthurt is amazing, you go prowling through my info just looking for anything you can use because you are too pathetic to come up with any REAL shit, LOL!

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            I have no more time to go “prowling” through your info than you do to read more than one article on this site and come to the conclusion that we’re all faggot pussy assed punk kids. I looked at your post history and saw that it’s overwhelmingly incoherent gaming gibberish from a counterstrike site. What, it’s the actions of a punk kid to come to conclusions about somebody based off of disparate internet postings? Also, I don’t need to look at your past posting to see that you have nothing to offer here. It’s a no brainer that the Marines isn’t something the majority of people want to keep doing for their life, what matters is why that is.

            In my experience, about 3/4 of the Marines that re-enlisted did so because they were willing to put up with the bullshit in exchange for the free food and job security. Boot camp was a bad joke with an average attrition rating of about 12% and a graduation rate of about 600 Marines/week when I was going through it. SOI was more of the same, and the fleet was the largest mass of people trying to shift the blame I’ve ever had to deal with. This bothered me, but what bothers me more is guys like you who ignore the problems and wave them off with wording that implies that the Marines are so hard core that they’re just not for everyone; when the truth is that all you have to do is go through the motions and do what you’re told and you’re golden. Also, yes, it helps if you’re willing to be a complete asshole to your peers and step on them to raise yourself up.

            I do mean a broken PT system, because there is no PT system. The overwhelming majority of units don’t have any plans for group PT, you’d just better be doing it in unison. Your actions on this site demonstrate that you don’t have anything to add to this conversation, and are looking instead for a quick laugh as a troll. If there’s any punk kids here, you’re giving a great demonstration of what one acts like.

          • Dear Leader

            Wow, its been awhile since I’ve seen a comment from you. Only saw it because I logged onto CS go lounge. No point at continuing this pointless exchange.

          • Chris

            Where you say “there’s no PT system,” you’re right. When I was a plt sgt I preferred to sit at my desk later, not earlier, so we’d have PT every morning at 6:45, shower, then hit the chow hall as a group. The other platoons were like, “man, you guys never come to work.” Then they were telling their junior marines, “you don’t want to go over there. They PT 5 days a week.”
            Yeah, it’s real rough. We went swimming, played volleyball, ran 5 miles, hiked with daypacks in preparation for company humps. This as opposed to cleaning common areas and feeling completely listless.

          • Thomas Richardson

            And YOU do, fanboy punk ass, all talk and no action delusional asshole? Gtfoh!! YOU are a loser like all other jarheads!!

          • Dear Leader
          • Thomas Richardson

            You want to come say that to my face, asshole? You probably are a ugly fucker.

          • Michael Wilson

            You don’t like the USMC Thomas Richardson, because you don’t have the nads, backbone, spine, and confidence to be one. Just like whiny “Nice/Good Guys” don’t like football Playing jerks at Highschool. You never had the confidence to make the football team at school, and you hated the jerks who got to date the Gils you’d have killed to date……….the girls that never looked at you sideways. If you were so badass bro, you’d have joined the Marines, the SAS, The Seals, Delta Force, or the Green Berets, but you haven’t. You ain’t done it, cos you knos you can’t. Just like loser “Good Guys” who tell Women:”I’d treat you like a Princess if you were mine”. If you can do that Bro, why aren’t you? We know why….becuse you can’t. Guys who can do it, DO IT……the rest of you sit around talkin about who you can do it. Guys like you are all talk. All talk, and no walk. You so called “Nice Guys” always finish last buddy, and you know it. Last in life, last with attracto Women. You finish last because you ain’t got shit, you don’t DO shit………..and you ain’t shit. I spent 15 years in the Australian SAS, modelled on the British SAS, pretty much the model and template for every scrack Spec Op sqaud n the planet. I got plenty of good friends in the British SAS, the USMC, Seals, Berets and Delta forcess, and they’re all good Fellas, and I’m proud to call em Brothers…or Sisters in the cause of Girl Marines. They’re all more men in their little pinkie fingers than you are in your whole body mate. Pull your head in and shut it!!

          • oldr

            To Micheal Wilson,
            I served in the USMC, but also had the honor of growing up in Australia in the 1980s. Having read this childish, immature post of yours ( plus seeing your other posts) I can say that you read exactly like a ‘Poser’ , an ARROGANT EGOTISITCAL SELF CENTERED NARCISSIST who has a massive chip on his shoulder about ‘Nice/Good guys’ to the point where I question your emotional maturity as an adult.
            Maybe you were SAS- I’d only believe it if I saw proof. I can prove that what I said about myself is honest. I also grew up around enough Australia women ( and know how the culture down there has become more anti male) that very few of them would automatically open their legs just because you brag as SAS. Maybe some would, and have, but also some wouldn’t hesitate to put you gaol for sexual harassment!
            Maybe you were kicked out of the Army because you were part of the Jedi Council, which Morrison had zero tolerance for? That just conjecture, but I’ll say I wouldn’t want you on a serious military operation if your mindset was only about glorifying yourself.
            No- I never was special forces, and one of the main criticism I have about the US Military (which can be extrapolated to the Australia Army) the there is just too much hype around these units that they tend to create arrogant prima donnas that start believing too much of media hyped bullshit.
            If you really did put in years of service fighting on behalf of the great country of Australia, then that deserves respect. But you hardly read like Ben Roberts Smith -maybe you are the ‘dud root’ that feels the need to over compensate by constantly writing on the Internet how much of a bad ass you were ( in your own mind?)
            I know you will write an insulting reply. Of the one time I had the opportunity to work with Australia SAS I was personally glad It never came to pass, because their overly braggart attitude was just too off putting. I tend to have more respect for ‘Real Men’ like Jesus Christ, Ghandi, Martin Luther King etc
            Write an insult back to me if it make you feel better about yourself….

          • Michael Wilson

            G’day from Downunder Oldr, and Semper fi to you my good Man. As I stated in the post, I have many good friends in both the Australian & British SAS, as well as Marines, Seals, Australian Commandos, Seals and Delta Force. They’re good People, people of character, and I’m proud to call them friends and Brothers….and Sisters in the case of Female Marines.

            My poin in the post, wasn’t to criticise one branch of the Military, proclaim the virtue of one over the other, or to claim the SAS or the Seals were superior to the USMC. Thomas Richardson was doing that though. He’s pissed off, angry, mad at the World and Women, who won’t date him despite him bein the Nicest Guy ever….Guys like him are always that way. He was on here bagging Marines and the USMC, when I can gurantee you he’s never joined and served……but he’s happy to run down good Marines who have served, put their arses on the line, and earned the right to be a Marine. Guys like him wouldn’t make it in the Marines, the Seals, SAS, Green Berets, Commandos, or Delta….he simply doesn’t have the confidence or spine for it. But like so many people, it’s easier for him to sit on his arse and do nothing, and criticise people that are doing.

            I don’t feel the need to insult you Bro, or get into a slanging match with you, that’s just pointless, egotistical BS, and I don’t need the approval and validation of others to feed my self worth. I got good friends in the USMC, they’re decent people of character and confidence, that have served their country honorably. I had no intention of offending youself, or any other Marine on here, that simply wasn’t the point my friend. My point though, was to pick up Thomas Richardson, who has a bee in his bonnet about the USMC, claiming the Seals, Berets and Delta are superior and more badass, when he’s never joined any of those, and never served. Maybe since he hasn’t, he should can it until he has.

            As for having a chip on my shoulder, yeah well I never denied that….it’s a lot more common in Special Op Guys than you might realise. I grew up with a chip on my shoulder Bro, bei surrounded by people who try to tear you down, and tell you they’re gonna laugh at you if you fail will do that to a Fella:P

            Again Bro, I had no intention to upset you,or anybody else on here that earned the right to be a Marine, and serve their country that way. I’ve no intention of insulting you as part of this discussion, I’d rather it be just that, a discussion. Anybody who enlists in their Counry’s Military, and makes that sacrifice, has my respect, simple as that. If any offence was taken Oldr Bro, then I apologize for that….because none was intended. Thanks for the reply Mate, pity we never got off on a better start on here

          • oldr

            Fair enough. After having put some time in the USMC, I personally got fed up with the constant ‘whose-dick-is bigger’ bragging -when it got to the point when missions were not being accomplished in the most effective manner possible because of peoples ego’s and petty inter service rivalry
            I don’t know you, but I do know the great country you grew up in ( which I think has changed in ways that are not for the better). The memories of Australia in the 80’s (Kingswood Country, Paul Hogan, Mad Max, One Day cricket with Greg Chapel, Denis Llillie, Rod Marsh etc) are very dear to me. You should be honored to be an Australian, but I don’t like the overly politically correct nanny state it has evolved into.
            I do congratulate you on your achievements, and don’t doubt you were a high performer. But each person has their own strengths and weaknesses, and I really see no reason why a person who isn’t a good fit for the Marine Corps should be forced to stay in. I can tolerate constructive criticism of the Marine Corps.
            If my comments were unfair to your real character, then it was wrong of me to jump to conclusions.
            btw I’ll never forget my time at Singleton as a Cadet in secondary school, and how RAR soldiers used to fuck with us.

          • Michael Wilson

            Hey Bro, howya doin, good to hear fromya:) I was born in 1971, so I was a teenager in the 1980’s………that’s the Australia I remember fondly. Constrctive criticism of your unit, Marines, SAS, Berets, Commandos, or Berets is one thing. If you left your ego at the door, you should welcome positive criticism of your own, or unit/regiments performance. Because none of us are stupid, we’ve all served and gone into combat. Our own lives, and lives of our Mates are dependant on bein the best Soldiers we can be. But poinless bagging of a unit/regiment grinds my gears, especially by people that have never sacrificed to join and serve. It might’ve seen my reply to Thomas Richardson was abit of an unprovoked outburst. But what got mde to say something was when he said he’d rather join the Seals, Berets or Delta Force, rather than the Marines.My question to him is, if he’d rather do that, why hasn’t he done it…….rather than sit on his arse baggin good people that have?

            Unfortunately Bro, people’s ego and inter service rivalry, beyond abit of good, healthy competition, can be part of bein in the Marines, Delta Force, Green Berets, SAS or Commandos. If top brass were more dilligent about lookin out for that sort of thing, and dealin with guilty parties in all brances, rathder than sittin on their arses at Defence HQ smokin Cuban cigars and drinkin Cognac, it wouldn’t happen. Good to hear back from you Bro, I’m guessin it’s pretty late Stateside. Always good to hear from a Brother in the USMC, the good Mates I got from the Marines, I got nothin but the highest respect for. Take care Mate, have a good one:)

          • Michael Wilson

            G’day Oldr, howya doin Bro? Hopeya well Buddy and doin alright. It’s been yonks since I heard from you. The Fiance` and I are in the US for the Summer, it’s been ripper. Say G’day sometime Bro, hope all’s well

          • Oldr

            G’day to you fine Sir. you definitely write like an Aussie. I’m trying to turn over a new leaf and not write things about the Marine Corps anymore. Its in the hands of a new generation now- and I have every confidence that it will be more ‘enlightened’ than it was in the past.

            I hope you enjoy your time in the US ( and don’t get hassled by TSA at least). By all means be sure to visit a shooting range, and experience the gun culture of Redneck America.

            I gotta be honest- when I read the Sydney Morning Herald, SBS, The Australian online- its seems that the great land of Australia has become a little too politically correct and tree hugging for my liking. I’m not a Trump lover/Fox News zealot, but don’t really approve of faggots getting married (as one example).

            I apologise again for any unfair or malicious things that were written that may have been detrimental to the Australian Army or SAS ( or good Marines for that matter). but on the flip side, I never could stand chest thumpers, Marines who thought their shit doesn’t stink, and my pet peeve-Marines with those damn I LOVE ME certificate walls!!!!

            (you get the picture).


            btw the old days before PC bullshit began


          • Michael Wilson

            LOL World Series war, god I remember that episode. Hey Bro, howya doin? I’m wrapped to see you still around man, that’s awesome:) No offense was taken on thi end from what you said, because I don’t know why you said it. For all I now, you could’ve had a long day at work, a late night, and were just tired, abit grumpy, and misread somethin, no biggie.We all gotta deal with chest beaters mate unfortunately, they make life difficult for everybody

          • I see you’ve got some residual “nice guy” issues spilling over onto the page for people who are douche bags about the USMC. Don’t be afraid to edit your criticism of this young marine to things that are actually specific to his possible malfunctions, like joining elite organizations that somehow manage to graduate just about everyone who starts on day 1.

            Thanks for your service in the SAS.

          • Michael Wilson

            G’day Chris Pascale, hope you’re well my friend. He’s not a Marine, he’s never served, but he’s baggin Guys in the USMC who have. He made a big deal out of sayin he’d rather join the Seals, Berets or Delta? My point to him is, why hasn’t he done it? I’ve served, and got good loyal friends in the USMC that have done likewise….I can also think of a good dozen off the top of my head that have paid the price of service with their lives. Unless he’s willing to join up, put his arse on the line and make that sacrifice……..he should quit baggin people who do. If he could do that, he would’ve. But the fact he hasn’t…….says all that needs to be said

          • Dear Leader

            I can tell you get NO pussy..

          • Conrad Pilapil

            Wasy buddy.. 1/23 then 2/23 deployed with both. .. yes.. we do the same shit.. and we handle our business. We reservists are pretty intense and less burned out by the bullshit since we are not fully controlled by uncle sam. To freeatlastfreeatlast.. lol.. you (was or currently active) are type of Marine we reservists talks shit about. We are very glad to not have to see fucks faces like you 24/7.

            To current active duty who are squared away.. lol.. shit talking time bitches.. don’t hate ’cause we can read a contract.. lol

            Semper Fi

    • Mcjenson

      Hahahaha what a fucking retard you are! Assuming every on here has bad PT scores and are weak! All because they said the truth about a stupid organization! You are hilarious dude! Go suck your dick some more.

    • Chris

      I love this site and I was the Bn Iron Man out of basic training. Was an expert with the rifle, had WSQ on the swim, and did special forces work (as an attachment) with a recon team in Falluja in 2005. Finished as a Sgt and Plt Sgt.

      You, on the other hand, are just another moron I had to deal with on the way up. Can’t spell for shit and think your ideas are interesting. You remind me of a fire team leader who in my semi-annual said that I “had to stop being such an smartass.” I told him I’d sign it when it was grammatically correct. He went off in a huff, probably to go fuck himself.

  • Don’t support dumb laws

    The logic of the motards never cease to amaze me.

    ‘Suck it up.’
    -Suck it up is a good term if used appropriately. However, in the context of saying it to a person who can’t hack it in the Marine Corps or hates certain aspects of the Corps is retarded. If someone really hates the Marine Corps or boot camp, let them go. Why do you want to keep the ‘pussies’ around? To haze them to raise your self esteem? If they suck so bad (especially when motards say they are pussies) why keep them around

    When I was a Marine Sgt, my chain of command focused more on results. We had 5-6 Marines go UA and we stopped caring after a week. Then a new commander required us to do ‘UA’ contacts everyday which is retarded. We got results without those people, and if they are UA, who gives a damn? They will be more of a liability anyways. Apparently, liability doesn’t factor in when motards have the oorah dick in their mouth.

    • Brenda

      Apparently they also teach marines the filthier you can talk the bigger a man you are. Also a big lie

      • USMCbegone

        Well, in my time on active duty, we were highly discouraged from swearing, For myself, when I hear women talk about ‘real men’, it tends to be a concept that focuses more around what suits their selfish needs!
        Does a real man pay for everything, or can hurt people who certain women want to be hurt? I’d say as a man, let women be drafted into the Marine Corps and give them the most dangerous and worst jobs it has to offer!

  • mike

    Your observations and general feeling of bootcamp and follow training resonated with mine.

    I didn’t know what I wanted to do after highschool and felt the world around me was ridiculous.

    I went on to SOI took the Recon Screener and spent 7 years at 1st Recon Bn.

    I’m now a civilian attending college.

    I still think the world is ridiculous, have no direction and can’t decide a major.

    Perhaps your disillusionment is not so much with the USMC and if your like moreso with the inability to find a “purpose.”

    Quite frankly some people who are a little more keen on intelligence immediately recognize the descrepancies between the “image” in which the USMC is portrayed existentially and the intrinsic madness that lies within. As such they feel like they are wasting/did waste their time. There is nothing wrong with feeling this way. As I mentioned, I definitely did and the bs continued through my entire enlistment.

    The spectrum between fully brainwashed/assimilated and separation due to rebellious behavior is a large one.

    My advice is find a balance. Your in a shitty situation but you made the choice to be there. Whilst I vehemently oppose motardness and always have, there is also a case to be argued with respect to benefits afforded to military members.

    You sound intelligent so I’m going to presume you are.

    If you use your intelligence to resist the status quo: (Myself for example, long hair, non issued boots, removable name tapes, telling POG gunny’s to eat a dick etc. etc.)


    But if you play it smart you can walk way with a host of tangibles that will help you along your way. For myself I got to attend many interesting schools that gave me very useful skillsets. Things like free education, certificates, networking also come to mind.

    When I was R.T.P. sometimes the cadre would let a kid that quit in the pool continue on in training. They ALWAYS quit again and didn’t make it to BRC.

    So don’t quit man, be resourcesful recognize the structure of the game and learn to manipulate it to your favor. If not your just going to end up a very angry and miserable person. I call it mini-1stSgt syndrome.

  • CAGuardMedic

    I’m 26 in the National Guard and thought the Marines as a reservist would be disciplined and efficient ,but after reading this, my eyes are opened to the truth about the Marines , I was going to get released to join the Marines reserve but now I’ll just ride out the last 3 years while I’ll do LAPD , Thank you all. By the way what is a typical drill weekend like with the reserve? Does anyone know?

    • Bubbafett

      Marine reservist drill like any other unit in sister services. If you are in an infantry unit you train accordingly. 75% in the field, 25% home side doing dumb annual training classes like how not to sexually assault someone, cleaning equipment, doing admin stuff, etc. My unit was good, used to get out on time. Then when the new CO came in, we sit around for 2 hours after everything is done waiting for final formation. Then he yaps for another hour or so. It fucking sucked ass.

  • courageousman nothnxmilitary

    I agree fully with this article, I hate how the military covers up all the bad they do to individuals and the masses. Like on the commercials they should be real and portray emotionaly, mentally damaged people being condescended on by their “superiors”. That’s exactly why I got out, I joined believing the military would help me to grow into a self-sufficient, even stronger than I was man. But ended up being treated as if I was a damn child always having some other man telling me what to do, and being forced to conform to their ideals of what’s “right” and “wrong”. I saw the hypocrisy, the lack of encouraging O integrity, not only in boot camp but all over the military. This site is the only place I’ve found with ex soldiers speaking the truth, and I don’t know how people being apart of this or knowing what is really happening to our brothers and sisters of this nation can stomach themselves but it needs to be heard, and recognized for the monster that it is.

    • BrassNecked14

      Mainly Marines hahaha, “soldiers” might irk that little pride guys that were in the Marines.

      But yeah, hypocrisy is something so rampant here, people like me; only been in a year and can’t wait to get out even though I have 3 more to go, or at least if I don’t apply for CO status

  • kathleen

    ooookay so I’ve been dating this guy for over four months now. BEFORE I START MY STORY. im not looking for advice. just advicing you.

    so I honestly love being with him. he makes me feel hot and special and wanted and honestly his smile lights up my life. my heart still skips a beat whenever I see him. I still get butterflies when he touches me.

    I love him. and he loves me.

    recently he’s been starting to be distant. and it’s fine; I let him have his space. until last month he started talking about wanting to break up.

    I was very upset. I called my friends and I was crying and all that jazz.

    I went to visit one of my friends, who happens to live near the guy. on my way to her house, I ran into my boyfriend. we sat down and talked for a while. he doesn’t know what he wants. I cried. he said that he wants a break because he feels so much pressure to be good at a relationship. he also wonders if sometimes that he might also be happier single. but then he says hes with me and he laughs and he’s happy and he doesn’t know.

    so towards the end of the conversation I suggested that if a relationship is like a house, and af lightbulb burns out, we don’t burn the house down. we fix the light bulb.

    (prior to this conversation he only saw 2 options- ending it or staying together) he chose ending it, i talked to my friend about it and he gave me a contact email for me to ask for help and i did, in contacted the love doctor and he told me what to do and when i did it, he prayed for me and my biyfriend came back begging me that he was with another woman who did a spell on him that made him leave me annd i should take him back. i had to choice, i had to take him. all thanks to The love doctor who helped me. his email is prayerstosaverelationship@yahoo.com if you have any problem in your marriage or relationship please do well to contact him he is the best.

  • Amilkar Nava

    This is not the truth just a POG whining about being a POG first contract pushes the weak out of the Corps if your to weak worrying what others are doing and how lifes not fair then get out of my Corps. This guy is just a weak boot took to anyone who reenlist into actual infantry enjoy the suck or get out. SGT Nava 8YRS IN

    • oldr

      Your wrong. Everything I read here is consistent to my own experience and those who have experienced the USMC. There are a lot of complaints in this, but he is pointing them out, as opposed to just keeping his mouth shut and accepting the hypocrisy and double standards.
      If you enjoy Infantry enough to want to reenlist after one term- then that’s your preference. But you will have to move on to a B-Billet eventually, so you won’t get to do all the grunt sh*t you supposedly enjoy right now. Whatever age you are now- just bear in mind that what doesn’t bother you physically at (say) 22 will become harder at 35. Damage to your body accumulates over time, and don’t think your command is going to care that much if you start developing real physical problems. They’ll just dump you on the VA!
      Life is definitely not fair, especially out in the civilian world. But at least you have the opportunity to escape from bad work situations and/or the stupidity of an employer!
      “First contract pushes the weak out of the Corps”.
      Complete and utter SHIT and you know it! That’s just your inflated ego talking. Most INTELLIGENT people will experience all the Corps stupid/absurd rules, then make a smart decision to move on to something else!
      Given that you mentioned Infantry, its not surprising that you couldn’t write coherent sentences. You’d better not venture far from a Marine Base, because that your self inflated sense of importance and testosterone fueled ego at being an 4 plus year Grunt will fall apart pretty quickly when faced with the realties of the REAL WORLD!
      Civilians are not going to worship you, your resume isn’t going to be very competitive for a GOOD job, and don’t think that the Corps wouldn’t hesitate to deny you reenlistment if it needs to cut back on its manpower!
      But don’t let the TRUTH and FACTS get in the way of your own delusions!

  • Trump_

    These stories help me feel like I’m not alone after I got out. I made a mistake going in, the Marines is for stubborn and power hungry folks. I am not stubborn and could give a shit about having any power, not even the President has all of the power… Don’t do anything to get out OTH, my friend did that and lost out on the benefits, his US Citizenship (he wasn’t born in this Country) and ever working for Government or Federal…

    • Chris

      That’s one reason I love this site so much – for the marines who need it. The funny thing is that you don’t realize how messed up some things are until you start talking to other people. It was only yesterday that I remembered this ridiculous thing that happened on Parris Island with an SDI who was cheating to win the competitions. It didn’t register as even a non-event before, but it really was a fantastic example of how hypocritical marines can be once they get a little rank on their collar.
      Not that people on the outside are any better. However, the accounting firm I worked for after getting out didn’t have posters with the CEO saying “Welcome to the Greatest Place Ever” or a with a ledger book stained with coffee at midnight saying “You’ll Never Have to Buy a Drink in a Bar Ever Again, and You’ll Get Laid All the Time!”
      In fact, before going to work there, the CEO sent me an email saying, ‘it ain’t that great. Think it over.’ He was right. A year later I was gone.

    • mmafan3 .

      I felt that way and no, you are not alone, nor are you “abnormal”. I’ll bet there are thousands in the ranks who would love to get on here and tell their story, but are in fear of reprisal. I’ve been out for 30 years and by all appearance, things have gotten worse..

  • Conrad Pilapil

    Fucking weak fucks. Why we let liberal beta fucking males in I have not fucking clue. SMH. Listen you fuck faces.. I’ve had my share of the green weenie and in fact was demoted back to Lance. Shit happens and while I don’t think it was entirely fair and the fucking Command was looking to get his star.. fuck it. I did put myself in the situation to begin with. Own up to your shit.. and you wont be a shit bag hating life in the Corps. In the end, I got out after 8 years (mostly due to getting fucked by command).. but I’m not hating on my beloved Corps. I do wish that, that fucking CO gets hit by a car and dies. Then I feel bad cause I think he has kids (I now also have a daughter) and I quickly take it back. lol. Thing is.. as with all things in life.. there are always shitty things happening, always some shitbag who is in position of power that probably should not be, and for the responsible ones, there always seems to be that fucking one that just wants to fuck shit up for everyone else. Get over that shit real fast.. because its both in the Corps, and out of the Corps. At least in the Corps, if you have your head on right.. you will be hard pressed to be surrounded with better people the rest of your life (just ignore the fucktards).

    • xyz

      You can’t handle criticism of “your” beloved Corps- then get the fuck off this web site.
      You read like a ‘weak fuck” for not standing up for yourself when some higher rank was treating you unfairly- I guess that’s the difference between YOU and us. We refuse to be brainwashed low paid wage slaves that blindly yells “Yes sir, No Sir Three bags Full Sir”.
      Crazy thing is- you reflect the Stockholm Syndrome that most Marines are brainwashed with.
      No- your wrong. I’ve been in and out of the Corps, and I’ve seen just as many good people OUT of it than those who wore that uniform. If anything, the Corps is just a place for government welfare for some shitbags.

    • Idris

      Hmmm beta male. sounds like you learned about red pill knowledge, but remember nothing is more beta than following around an organization having control of your life telling you what to do screwing with your career (you said it yourself) instead of living your own life and taking life into your own hands. Also why do people who are red pill and are on the right always make the generalization that liberals are beta and conservatives are alpha. Your well aware that you have liberals that are red pill right and red pill philosophy is more liberal and radical than it is conservative. This is why it’s not good to mix politics with philosophy.

    • What did you get busted down for? What are you doing now? Hope you’re using your GI Bill. You paid for it, after all. If not for you, then use it for your kids’ sake. That’s what got me in the classroom, and now I have a master’s degree.

    • Thomas Richardson

      Conrad, we are stating the truth, usmc sucks. Spec ops, namely Green Berets, SEALs, AFPJs, DEVGRU, 24th STS, and Delta Force are where it’s at. FUCK usmc, they are overrated garbage completely.

      You are like most, brainwashed into believing the usmc are golden when they are not even close. They wish they were as good as the six I stated. You wish it too, but it’ll take a LONG time for that to happen. If it ever does.

    • mmafan3 .

      Actually, most people here, myself included love the Corps..it’s many of the people that pollute the ranks.