The Marine Corps is difficult, but it’s difficult for the wrong reasons. It’s difficult in the wrong ways.

The following is a response to a comment written by a very gung ho individual. I figured it should be turned into an article.

You’re doing the same thing that so many Marine hopefuls do, focusing on boot camp and ignoring the 4+ years that come after it. While the dropout rate from boot camp may be comparable to other services (I don’t know if it is, I don’t feel like looking that up right now), the first enlistment attrition rate for the USMC is much higher than other branches.

As you noted, and I agree, the Marine Corps attracts motivated and determined people, most of whom choose the Marine Corps because they see it as the hard choice, a right of passage to manhood, the elite branch of the world’s elite military, etc. I think from personal experience that there are more optimistic hopefuls that join the Marines out of a sense of patriotic altruism than other branches, many of whom attract recruits through promises of job training and bonuses. Why then do so many of these determined young men literally leave in disgust after their first enlistment when compared to the other branches? Why is this branch the only one with a genuine hate site dedicated to it?

While it may sound strange, the Marine Corps is difficult, but it’s difficult for the wrong reasons. It’s difficult in the wrong ways.

While it could be difficult to establish and hold to personalized physical training regimens within platoons or squads, that the participants might see results in higher P/CFT scores, you more often than not are treated to a lovely helping of squad pushups, buddy carries, and a six mile shuffle while screaming about a little yellow birdy every morning. Because that’s how the Marine Corps does PT, in sync and to the lowest common denominator.

While it could be difficult working with firm but fair NCO’s who know their jobs like the backs of their hands, you more often than not are directly supervised by semi-literate rubes who don’t know the difference between metric and standard but can tell you right now how high the female dress shoe heel is authorized to be, or how many steps a burial detail is meant to take from the hearse to the grave. Because those are questions that are asked on a board, and that’s how the Marine Corps finds promotion worthy enlisted.

It could be difficult to maintain gear to be ready at all times, but you’ll typically be tasked instead to ensure the SL-3 is complete, the record jacket is updated, the serial numbers are cataloged, the history , chips, dings, dents, scratches, the goddamn scuff marks, are all carefully annotated. It doesn’t matter that the fire extinguishers in the SL-3 are empty, the spare batteries are dripping acid, the Jerry cans have half an inch of mud and oil in them, and the gear is held together with 550 cord and prayers. Those problems are not what the inspection looks for, so they don’t exist. All that truly matters is that the unit looks good on paper.

Then there are things that shouldn’t be difficult, but the Marine Corps just love to make them so.

Walking from point A to point B? You’re marching in step to cadence while those who outrank you walk behind you laughing at how unfortunate/retarded you are.

Need to clean you room? You’re going to be at it every week at least once a week for at least five hours. Did you clean it well enough? Well, that depends on the mood of the inspector, and whether or not he wants to spend the weekend at home.

Spending your weekend not working? You get to listen to someone tell you not to rape, murder, pillage, or plunder the surrounding populace for a while after standing in formation for a few hours. Want to go on a vacation? You’re going to fill out and sign a form that says that you promise not to rape, murder, pillage, or plunder the populace after hearing the same speech. Depending on where you plan to go, you may also promise not to, among other things, swim in jellyfish infested waters, buy/sell/use/traffic drugs, train or sell gear to drug dealers (I’m not kidding), participate in human trafficking, or assault local law enforcement or their families. Why would you have to do this? So there’s a piece of paper to cover the ass of whoever is in charge of you, because, as an officer once analogized so poetically to me, “When a dog shits on your carpet, do you blame the dog, or his master, the one who trained him?”.

Many Marines have it much worse than these petty grievances, some feel frustrated that after over a decade of friends, limbs, and minds being spent in shit pit locales for semi-coherent and often changing reasons, said shit pits refuse to stop being so damned shitty. I was lucky, I got out with all my fingers and toes and had only one friend die many miles away from me when I was in Afghan. I never really said goodbye to him before separating, and I never saw him again. I didn’t have to listen to him scream and feel worthless like the guys that were with him. What then does our unit do to honor this Marine? Why, throw him a funeral on Leatherneck of course. Who got to stand out in the sun in the middle of the summer at various parade poses while listening to bible verses and speeches made by people who didn’t know him? His friends. Who sat in shaded stands while this funeral went down? A bunch of pretentious officers that couldn’t tell you the first thing about the guy, but oh so honored his memory with their very presence.

It’s these and many other endless, repetitive, grinding, pointlessly stupid slights to our pride and intelligence that drove so many of us out. Where we expected to find a rite of passage, we found pointlessly endless belittlement. We feel betrayed and lied to, we feel genuine hatred towards that disorganization that asked for so much, took what we gave, chewed us up and spat us out without a second glance. We feel taken advantage of, stepped on, thanklessly abused for no other purpose other than to feed the egos of those who didn’t deserve our respect.

The question then becomes why do some stay in? Some seemed to like it, these people were typically pretty low achievers before coming into the Marines, and find something there that’s a whole lot better than than where they came from. Speaking again from personal experience, many others stay in because they don’t want to try their luck on the outside, in the “real world”. I heard many arguments like “the economy sucks right now”, “all of life sucks, not just the Marine Corps”, “As soon as you pick up ‘insert next rank here’ you don’t have to do shit, why leave now?”. In truth, it think many senior enlisted and commissioned simply forget how things really are, and see their careers through rose tinted glasses. In the end, I think it’s something like this:…

Things won’t change until these issues come to light and are actually addressed. That’s what being a Marine should mean, finding your flaws and addressing them.

– freeatlastfreeatlast


Original comment:

  • private schmuckatelli

    The guy you didn’t see when you signed your contract.

    • S.

      It’s a trap!

  • niggayougay

    Hey everyone, an article written by a butthurt POG

    • yamotha

      Hey everyone, a comment by a brainwashed fuck, don’t you have more important things to do like suck your SNCOs dick? POG/GRUNT? your all a bunch of mentally abused, pissed off, cleaning ladies whom do nothing but waste tax dollars. please do us all a favor and off yourself.

    • Knob_Gaudy

      Seems like its always POGs who call other people POGs on the internet. I strongly suspect that the very few actual combat vets have a million better things to do than bitch about how POG other people are. I didn’t commission, but like me, you probably never saw combat either. At least I got to be free.

      • S.

        Nailed it

    • Don’t support dumb laws

      Ha. I’ve seen POGES out perform a grunt at times. Hell, I saw a fat fuck of a grunt who couldn’t even pass a PFT.

  • Chris Thompson

    This article was written by someone who obviously could not hack it because i got out after 4 years and i have no hate for the corps hell i miss it sometimes it made me the man and the husband that i am today POG or Grunt it doesnt matter not everyone is meant to be a Marine some shldve stuck to boy scouts

  • Older Marine Vet

    I compliment ‘freeatlastfreeatlast’ for the last two articles he has written, even though they are somewhat of a rehash of what has been said on this site before, plus the fact that they both contain some bitter personal observations as opposed to proper critique of the stupidity he was forced to endure.

    I find it surprising that in another article during a four year enlistment he had to do 12 book reports, probably at the whim of senior enlisted rank. During my 4 yrs enlisted as an 0311, I was only ever forced to do one- it was submitted to an unhinged and unbalanced 1st Sgt who came up with the idea on a whim!

    Not so much in the article above, but in another submission it just highlights the problems with being forced to do “meaningless and unnecessary work” which doesn’t lay a foundation for a goal to achieve. Doing college courses equate to a four year degree, but do MCI’s, book reports or attending certain training count towards points toward a promotion, or any other type of end state that will motivate people to work hard because there is a tangible benefit for doing so? ( other than just hateful threats and bullying!)

    I just pose the general question that one of the many reforms the Corps needs to do is seriously examine its education, training and cutting score promotion system to say, 1) make doing a certain number of MCI’s equitable to earning some college credit, as long as doing them is a more serious undertaking than just the casual cheating that has gone on for decades.

    2) If a Marine hits all the above average metrics and passes an MOS proficiency test to gain a higher rank, why should they be forced to wait around for an inefficient cutting score system or time in grade to advance a higher rank or have an new opportunity for more advanced training? My cynical side thinks that the USMC does not want to implement a more incentive and rewards based training system like this because it has a vested interest in keeping a personnel structure where the majority are lower paid junior enlisted, because they don’t want too many advancing too quickly.

    If the Marine Corps were a business, it would be forced to adapt and change its inefficient, time wasting and irrelevant practices to become more effective in operation. Added to this are the experiences of poor leadership, unjust punishments, and degrading and belittling those who might otherwise perform better given the right incentives, I think add up to why the retention rates in the USMC for first timers are so bad.

    If the Marine Corps were a business, it would have no other choice but to respond to all the ‘dissatisfied customers’ that have posted on this web site who have pointed out some very real problems that have been discussed here.

    If the Marine Corps were a business, would it waste so much of its personnel’s time by making them listen to repetitive safety briefs, or forced them fill out ridiculous and trivial paperwork governing what they know is not right to do?
    If the Marine Corps wants professionals, it should treat it people professionally, plus have a healthy does of common sense! Just saying Semper Fi or yelling OHH RAHH isn’t going to address the underlying structural problems.

    • ohreally

      “My cynical side thinks that the USMC does not want to implement a more incentive and rewards based training system like this because it has a vested interest in keeping a personnel structure where the majority are lower paid junior enlisted, because they don’t want too many advancing too quickly”

      Ever since I left; I have been thinking the same shit too. The more one thinks about it, what would be the joy in having a higher rating if there aren’t as many people beneath you to lord and rule over? If the society is more equitable, would people really give a shit about reaching so hard to become a Corporal or Staff Sergeant, just to get out of the bullshit of the last rating? What use does a rank have if a lot of other people are in that rank?

      • Older Marine Vet

        Very legitimate questions which I do not have an easy answer to, because I lack the experience in USMC personnel force structure and personnel projections ( iow- I never worked at HQMC THANK GOD!!)

        But you could also apply this line of thinking from the top down. How many Generals does it take to run the military cost effectively? Not as many as we have now:

        USNews- The Pentagon has too many Generals

        Also, If you had any experience at Officer Basic school (or TBS) you experience the challenge of leading and following those of equal rank around you. Being a prior enlisted, it sometimes took all my patience to deal with college grads who were book smart, but also stupid in the sense they had no realization about what could (and could not) work in field conditions.
        So leaders do need followers, but a lot of frustrations I read on this site are those who just got fed up with the lack of advancement, detrimental treatment , and lack of opportunity (or upward mobility) that makes them more focused on getting out asap.
        If our DoD were more honest and more accountable, it would start cutting personnel at the top- less generals and less senior Officers. But in reality that Good old Boy network will fight tooth and nail to protect itself- they would rather push that pain down the chain of command!
        But it would still be good to see the USMC implement some reforms that make training, education and advancing through the ranks a more professional and equitable (=equality of opportunity for all) experience.

    • freeatlastfreeatlast

      Thanks Older Marine Vet, I agree, I’m re-hashing the same stuff I’ve gone over before. Thankfully, it’s in article format now so it’s not going to get buried in the anonymous discussion page. I’m still hoping to see some articles written by you on your views on the difference between the day-to-day lives of officers and enlisted, and the requirement that all officers have a college degree. I’d also like to hear your thoughts on the fraternization policies, which I think fosters an “us and them” mentality in the ranks that should really be more focused on mission accomplishment. It would be great to have those up in article format as well and not have to repeat the same thing to every motard that stumbles across this site.

      I agree that one of the key things that drove me out of the Marines was the absurdly impossible prospect of meaningful advancement in that promotion system, right behind the criminally negligent draconian bureaucracy and their love of one-size-fits-all corporate rule making. As I said in the other article, once I got out and started working for folks that actually care how efficiently you accomplish your job, I was promoted pretty quickly. It seems pretty logical to promote people who make you money to better retain them that the might make you more. I can then see why the Marine Corps has little incentive to promote those at the lower ranks, we just end up costing the Marine Corps more money.

      One of the things that attracted me to the Marine Corps was the claim that they push more responsibility to the lower ranks than the other services. That sounded great to me, they push you harder and weed out the weak and then entrust you with greater responsibilities than those at comparable rank in the other branches. What this really seemed to mean in practice though was that the promotion system was so bottle necked at the E-3 range that they have to assign more responsibilities to those who would have easily picked up E-4+ in the other branches, but are stuck in that hellish limbo. E-3s and E-4s literally ran every shop I was a part of. All the work on the floor was done by E-3s and the occasionally good E-4 who hadn’t gone over to the dark side of memorizing the drill manual and paperwork specifications in lieu of their jobs to be meritoriously promoted. That fact was almost never recognized by the “leadership” though, who always seemed more than happy to make E-3s directly responsible for literally millions of dollars of gear, but not trust them enough to be off base past midnight.

      That contradiction really ate at me throughout my four years in. You can be trusted to work without direct supervision in Afghanistan for months on end, but you can’t be trusted off base by yourself. You can be trusted with an assault rifle and a few hundred rounds, but you can’t be trusted to own a car. You can be trusted to make decisions of life and death dealing with the local populace, but you can’t be trusted to not rape babies every weekend without being told not to. In truth, the Marine Corps really does push responsibility into the lower ranks, but withholds the trust that comes along with it. What really drove this home was seeing the high school aged dependents drive around on base. Those kids were more trusted than Marines.

      I couldn’t agree more with your cynical side’s assessment of the Marine Corps promotion system, why pay people more to do the same job? It’s not like they’re going to quit and find more lucrative employment elsewhere, you can treat them like you want and then discard them after they’ve served their use, just assume that they were shitbags and call them bitches if they bring it up later on.

      • ohreally

        “I can then see why the Marine Corps has little incentive to promote those at the lower ranks, we just end up costing the Marine Corps more money.”

        Speaking the truth once again, free at last. One of the things that helped give me closure as I left the Marine Corpse, along with sanity, was the recognition that when you got down to it, the Marine Corps really is just another big dumb government bureaucracy. Sure they might have a superb propaganda campaign, that appeals to both one’s desire for service to the community and wanting to feel like a badass while doing it, but especially for those of us who were on active duty, the day to day ennui of having to *live* with your chain of command, which is just a stupid bureaucracy that inevitably needs to come up with reasons for its existence, at YOUR expense, becomes unbearable to live with.

        The ridiculous field days, based on the principle of “it’s shiny so it’s clean” instead of using scientific methods that civilian health departments use to stop diseases, run on endlessly for the purpose of keeping Marines healthy and disease free. After all, in the entire history of warfare, easily preventable diseases killed far more participants in war than actual combat ever did. So what do most Marines do right after field day? They inject poison into their lungs and kill their livers.

        We are told we need smart Marines to operate technologically sophisticated equipment that can save the lives of thousands of people. But if one were to ever use the mind that can understand and break down intricate technical concepts and apply that sort of logic to the nonsense and and assbackwardness of our orders, we are looked down on as selfish “individuals” who are hellbent on only caring about ourselves and reneging on “mission accomplishment”, whatever the hell that means, considering the United States seems to not want to win wars anymore, anyway.

        Our Drill Instructors all drilled into us this mantra “A Marine never lies, cheats or steals”. This is precisely why at SOI and at every duty station and hellhole we unfortunately find ourselves ordered to, we are encouraged by our chain of command to put locks on EVERYTHING because everybody steals from each other. This stands to reason why absolute incompetents are *always* passed by instructors to graduate whatever bullshit training events are put up, even to the point of outright lying about event and test scores, as long as they *try* hard enough, no matter how many people they might get killed. It’s not as if these instructors are graded on how many meat bodies they put down the pipeline, right? This is also why recruiters exist, telling more impressionable than most minors, that if they sign an indentured servant’s contract, they will join a lifelong eternal “brotherhood”, one that will involve every single Marine who is not of your rating verbally abusing you on a daily basis for the most petty of “errors”, if not because of outright intentional heinousness, then because they know that if they don’t display antipathy towards their subordinates and peers constantly, they won’t get the next promotion.

        If one talks about how this life is inefficient and wasteful and how pointless the vast majority of it really is, you are branded as unfaithful to a Marine Corps with a heritage of fidelity stretching back over hundreds of years. But outside of a substructure where you are paid money, given benefits to stay in, and where it is ridiculously and intentionally hard to separate early, how do Marines stack up to civilians when without financial incentives? The Marines have a divorce rate of 3.8%, higher than civilians and the worst first time retention rate in the Armed Forces. This does not even take into account the popular subjective experience that a disease of adultery, child abuse, alcoholism, and outright violence takes place in the Corps that would make normal healthy humans squirm. The overwhelming mass of Marines simply take their benefits and run for their lives after the minimum time needed. If the Marine Corps were a country, it would be East Germany, what with all the refugees fleeing it.

        But the most dubious of all propositions the Marine Corps offers one, despite being the bloated ruinous hydra that it is, stands this concept of following the orders of your chain of command as if it seemed infallible. Much like living under a theocracy, one is told from the very first moment one exists under the organization that not following orders as fast as possible will result in death, maiming, and general unwanted mayhem. You could say that it is “sinful” to not follow orders.

        And it feels reasonable to assume that in combat for a righteous struggle, presumably for freedom or democracy or some other piffle, in a far off corner of the globe, one needs to follow orders quickly to support your brothers and sisters who may very well die if you do not assist them as fast as possible. Well, using common sense to recognize that the vast majority of one’s time in the Marine Corpse will actually NOT involve combat, epic warfighting or rehabilitative social work, let us take the time to see how this works out in practice shall we?

        Taking a look at the history of the Marine Corp’s chain of command:

        (Note that this list is a bit subjective, so one may add or remove a war or two, with the greater point remaining in place; this even applies if one were to remove the dubious wars with which history does not provide the total documented intent for)

        American Revolutionary War: Just

        Quasi War: Dubious

        Barbary Wars: Just

        War of 1812: Dubious

        Seizing of Spanish Ferninandia: Unjust, imperialist

        Seminole Wars: Unjust, imperialist

        Mexican-American War: Unjust, imperialist

        Capturing and execution of the abolitionist John Brown: Unjust

        American Civil War: Just

        Annexation of Hawaii: Unjust, imperialist

        Spanish-American War: Unjust, imperialist (one could argue that at the beginning it was a humanitarian intervention, but later devolved into naked imperialism)

        Phillipine-American War: Unjust, imperialist

        Panamanian War of Independence: Dubious

        Boxer Rebellion: Unjust, imperialist

        Panama Banana War: Unjust, imperialist

        Cuba Banana War: Unjust, imperialist

        Veracruz Banana War: Unjust, imperialist

        Haiti Banana War: Unjust, imperialist

        Dominican Republic Banana War: Unjust, imperialist

        Nicaragua Banana War: Unjust, imperialist

        Honduras Banana War: Unjust, imperialist

        Cuban Banana War: Unjust, imperialist

        World War One: dubious

        Siberian intervention: dubious

        WW2: Just

        Korean War: dubious

        Dominican Republic again: dubious

        Vietnam War: dubious

        Gulf War one: dubious

        Kosovo: Just

        Gulf War Two: dubious

        Afghanistan: Just

        Recognizing that my standard of just or dubious comes down to what the historical consensus of evidence suggests were the (usually greedy) intents of the wars (for example I state that the Mexican-American war was imperialist and unjust because most of the scholarly evidence testifies that the war started so the slave interests of the time could gain foreign land to spread slavery, hence why Abraham Lincoln voted against the war), this is what one finds. Putting the outrightly imperialist wars with the dubious ones over the just ones, there exists just six “good” wars over the 33 total wars I have listed here. Which means that judging from past experience, there exists an 82% chance that one will be ordered to fight, die, get maimed in, or murder other human beings in wars that cannot be guaranteed as morally permissible to fight in, let alone die in. One could make the argument that there are many a banana war or “intervention to protect life and property” that I have neglected to mention here. You could even make the claim that my standard of “moral” is bullshit, and say that many of the dubious wars were in fact moral. However even with tweaking the data, it is hard to deny without holding onto cognitive dissonance as a crutch, that the OVERWHELMING number of wars that Marines have been ordered to “serve” in by their chains of command over the entire existence of the Corps have been “hard to explain” at best. Why exactly would we ever trust these bureaucrats to let us run our lives, let alone, *kill* other human beings?

        “War is a Racket”

        Smedley G. Butler

        “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.”

        Albert Einstein

  • KM

    Not trying to be a motivator, but I went to Iraq twice back when it was still hot. Lost some friends, came back with most of my pieces and sanity, and I really didn’t have this experience. I was an Amtracker, and had plenty of run-ins with the career counselor saying the same things you did. But I wanted to stay in, but realized that staying in would break me physically. I still love the Marine Corps, never went on a board, and got fucked over like everyone else. But those were the best 4 years I could have ever had directly after high school. So you got shit on? So what, welcome to the world. My boss takes a giant shit on me daily, but I suck it up and move on, because that’s what I do.

    It sucks your enlistment soured you so bad, but I’ve only ever met 1 person as bitter as those that post on this site, and he’s bitter because he got NJP’d 5 times in 4 years for booze, battery and UA.

    Best of luck.

    • ohreally

      Don’t think that I am trying to make fun of you personally when I say this because I honestly am not, but I think social scientists need to investigate why in the world some people actually *love* the Marine Corpse. From my personal anecdotes, I never meet a Marine who feels ambivalent about the Corpse, it’s always utter hatred or total love. You appear to be someone who loves the Corpse, the people on this website and me fucking hate it.

      Now with that being said, it doesn’t follow that just because life sucks in general that the Marine Corps can’t. I really do from the bottom of my big bleeding heart think that you insult the world when you claim that the Marine Corps’s suckage represents some natural undying trait of existence. “So you got shit on? So what, welcome to the world.” Life can be *so* much better than following orders to make some other man’s cutting scores. Hell, this is the reason why the Corpse has the highest rate of people fleeing after the first enlistment. With that being said I applaud you on surviving the Marine Corps with *most* of your sanity and body left to you. I suppose that’s the least one can ask for in life is it not?

      • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

        I think most of you haters would have hate for any branch you’d of served in! Some people complain about everything!

    • Older marine Vet

      “My boss takes a giant shit on me daily”
      Since I’ve gotten out and worked three civilian jobs, I find this quote is more a reflection of your own passive and docile behavior. Civilian worked do have a lot more rights than Marines and have avenues to enforce them- so you let your boss do this to you and you don’t stand up for yourself?? The Marine Corps brainwashed you pretty well.
      In the real world, people stand up, protest and take legal action if they are being treated unfairly. Get with the program.

      • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

        Yea go ahead stand up, get you a law suite.. What you just said makes no fucking sense of how the real world works!

    • freeatlastfreeatlast

      On the week I got out, I started working for a neighbor who owns his own trade business. I’ve known him since I was about three, and he knew I was dependable, my time in the Marines mattered about as much to him as my time in college or in a meth lab in Arizona would have. Sure the work was physically demanding (hands down more demanding than the Marines) and we were always on a strict time table, but I didn’t have to worry about holding my hands behind my back and submitting like a bitch whenever my boss needed something. I also sucked it up and moved on, but in the sense that I was doing honest work and not having to bend my head submissively every hour I did it. I worked for him for a few months, established my reputation in town as a dependable employee, enrolled in college and went to work for a local company with my neighbor’s recommendation. I did good work for him and he’d be happy to have me back if things don’t work out otherwise.

      The company I went to work for had a lazy dipshit in charge of me who thought he could lord over me. I made it clear that that wouldn’t happen, and I didn’t get reprimanded for not kowtowing to him like a little girl oddly enough. After a few weeks of proving that I could do his job better than he could, I had his job. Now I attend school full time, don’t get belittled on a daily basis, and still make more money than I did in the Marines. My boss doesn’t take a shit on me daily because he knows I’ll find a job elsewhere if he does. It’s hard to do well in classes and still work full time, I’m well aware that I could be fired tomorrow if they find someone who can do my job better than I can, but that’s a risk that I’m happy to live with, because I feel like more of a man now than I ever did in the Marine Corps. I have my pride and honor again, things the Marine Corps just loved to question and undermine.

      As to your final suggestion, that I was a shitbag alcoholic deserter; of the thirteen or so Marines I met in my four years in that made me want to re-enlist, at least six of them have gotten out with as much disgust as me. I’m not the only one that was fed up with the draconian one-size-fits-all rules, or the chronic waste of money through criminally inept and negligent oversight of equipment and gear in an attempt to make units look shiny on paper. I wasn’t the only one who got caught up in the endless mass punishments for events I had absolutely no control over, who was trusted with millions of dollars of government equipment and armaments, but not with a car or even the right to walk to work by themselves. I wasn’t the only one who saw the casual belittlement dished out on a daily basis with the casual shrug of “if you want to be treated like a person you should pick up” by honorless alcoholic cunts who had turned on their own friends for a position of assumed authority, handed out by those more concerned with advancing their own careers than with the well being of those placed in their charge.

      No, neither I nor most of my similarly dissatisfied peers were alcoholics, or deserters, or drug addicts, or shitbags by any metric I care about, but I did feel like a coward every second of every day that I put up with the belittlement because I knew it would only result in a dishonorable discharge for me to speak out against it. That’s the real reason I’m so fucking bitter, I don’t like the fact that nothing’s changed for the better in that disorganization and that even now there are kids signing away four years of their lives with the same hopes and expectations I had. I want things to change, and they’re not going to if everyone stays quiet and just sucks it up.

      • KM

        To clarify, not once did I claim you to be an alcoholic shitbag. I think you were probably a stand up marine, and just got tired of the shit. We all do, but I understood before I went in how shitty it would probably be. Again, not putting anyone down here, I’m just speaking of my experience. I hated being treated like a child as much as everyone else, but I saw what happened when you didn’t pay attention, my friends died. My leaders were inept, they all are.

        As for “Older Marine Vet” I work in health care, so does my wife. Sometimes we have to pick up slack with patients, because people don’t do their part. We get extra work because we are reliable and efficient. Unfortunately, it does feel like getting shit on. I’m a team oriented guy, I want the team to work as hard as I do. Unfortunately not everyone has the same work ethic I do.

        “Ohreally” Thanks for not patronizing my opinions. I got long-winded and somewhat defensive; my mistake. I do understand that life isn’t always about “sucking it up” just to move up in the world, but I have found that for me, following orders and working hard has paid off. Does that mean I kiss ass? No, absolutely not. I spent 3 years as a Lance, because “Too many chiefs, not enough indians.” I have still never let that go, had the scores multiple times but got held back because some 19 year old kid went on a board.

        I really wish I had just shut my computer down and not posted, but I felt like I should at least give my opinion, even if it is the minority. I’m sure NONE of you were turds, and all did glorious things in your time in the Corps. I hope that your future endeavors are better than your time in.

        • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

          Semper Fi ! Marine! If these Marines would grow up and really think of the good traits and or practices they carry with them from their service in the Marine Corps instead of focusing on field day, police calls, guard duty, etc etc. they could move on, I hate the way these Marines on this site talk young men & women out of joining! Not everyone has a bad experience, and telling them to stay in school is smart but there is no guarantee they will complete school.. So lets say they do not join,& they stay in school and end up dropping out of school, but they now have a child, and over the age to join Marine Corps, so they spend their life at a shitty fucked up Job , because you talked them out of joining! This will be good with you Marines that talked them out of joining? I know some of you have had some shitty times in Marines but you have to have had a few good ones as well so tell both sides of the story!

      • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

        Nothing will ever change! The Marines are not a Democracy! Chesty Puller must be rolling over in his grave! Dam it Boy!

        • Billiam201

          Chesty, with his hands in his pockets and a cigar in his mouth while walking?

          That guy?

          If he’s rolling in his grave at all it is surely with regret at what idiot demagogues turned a warfighting organization into.

          A glorified beauty pageant, for old men who get their jollies on looking at young 20-somethings in their tight shirts.


          • Jarhead

            I think Chesty would Roll his eyes & Retire.. Service in USMC without wars to fight is like drinking non alcoholic beer! LOL

          • Jarhead

            I do believe he would roll his eyes but not at the Marine Corps…

    • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

      Semper Fi! Yes I am also very sorry for all these Marines that had such a bad experience in the Marine Corps they feel they need to discourage others from Joining.. I was 19 years old when I joined and it was the greatest time in my life, Learned a lot about sucking it up and moving on! That helped me to get to the top of my Profession without any degree.. And I thank my service in the Marine Corps for giving that! Yes I have a love hate relationship with the Corps but I Love the Marine Corps more than I could ever hate! Its called “Embrace the Suck”!

    • Wilson

      Yat Yas

      • Billiam201



        • Master LCpl

          Yes really!

  • Phil

    You’re not an activist. You’re a retard with a smartphone and no life.

    • S.

      How did you come to that conclusion? Please enlighten us with your superior intellect.

    • ohreally

      *motard finds an argument whose merits he cannot debate against*

      *insert abusive ad hominem here in a loud voice*

      But now that I think about it and remember what “leadership” in the Corpse consists of let me put it this way.

      *insert Marine leadership here*

      There, fixed.

    • Fuckyou

      Piss off and die, motarded fuck.

    • Thomas Richardson

      And you do? Gtfoh. You idiots on here who keep defending these massively overrated batch of dumbfucks do realize that these pathetic bozos have nothing for anyone to hate on?

      A really elite unit does not have nearly 300,000 members currently, and a few million members past and present combined, and that they do not have a pathetic nearly 90% pass rate.

      When o when will dumbasses like Phil and Unclesams realize this? That pathetic flunkies like jarheads have NOTHING for anyone to hate on, and legit pros like SEALs do?

  • Avery Fletcher

    I did my six got busted to lance took my honorable got my bennies but I still love my Marine corps I got busted for what “I” did and you don’t quit boot you get washed out either by medical or non hacker if they discharged you you fucked up not the corps fuckin panty waist

    • S.
    • Bubbafett

      I got out as a Sgt. Seen my fair share of BS and good shit. The number one issue I got with the Marines is quitting boot camp is impossible. That should not be the case with an ‘elite’ branch. They will recycle you as much as possible before actually discharging you, wasting manpower, time and money.

      • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

        yea they should drop the recruits that realize after 1st phase its not for them.. on an individual basis!

    • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

      OhhRrraaHhh.. Semper Fi ! Devil Dog!

  • gsawpenny

    It ain’t all dress blues and hot chicks (especially in and around Camp Lejeune).

    Look, I get it. The Corps did not see in you what you saw in it. Moreover, it has long been known that the USMC has the lowest retention rate for first-term folks. It has been that way since 1946 when they started tracking that kind of thing.

    You did your time, served honorably, and now you are making your way through life doing what ever is next. The anger will subside and you will eventually slap that EGA sticker on your old-man car. I do wish you the best, seriously.

    • USMCbegone

      Ha! Anybody who joins the Marine Corps thinking that “hot chicks” will flock to him just because they wear the issued uniforms is sadly delusional!
      I can say with 99% certainty that most women who had the misfortune of living near Marines bases didn’t want to have a damn thing to do with Marines, unless it was to milk them for benefits or hook up with an Officer to get a share of their bigger paycheck! As enlisted at MCB Hawaii, the monotony of nighttime duty was interrupted when we would get calls from drugged out old hags wanting to talk dirty! That supposed “fun” didn’t last long, since most “hot chicks” in Hawaii or California stayed away from military and targeted men with more money!

      • gsawpenny

        Trust me, it is the same for all branches of the military and at every military base – be it army, navy, air force, Marine, or coasties.

        • Don’t support dumb laws

          Did you served in other branches? I got no Marine or Army sticker on my car lol.

          • gsawpenny

            Oh yeah, I managed to fuck up in more than one branch!

          • Bubbafett

            Haha. Me, Marines and Army Guard.

        • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

          Defiantly is!

  • R

    As an ex girlfriend, that which doesn’t kill you makes you better I guess. I learned the words Sempwr Fi,which had an enormously profound impact on my life, because having ptsd and 3 brain injuries, that phrase has pulled me through countless times in holding on to Jesus. The phrase improvise adapt,and overcome and kept me through countless days and nights of so badly just hoping I wouldn’t have to wake to,face another day. And the number 22, which is my salvation,date, by the way, has kept me in my darkest moments from giving someone else, esp one of you the excuse to take the easy way out. If a 120 lb civilian woman can you can
    Period. And,thbanks for the peanut butter works,when your broke and,hungry. I will,overcome. I will,receive my right hand seat in Heaven,and I will love you Marines. So God help me and thank,each and every one of you for your sacrifice and,service, may Hod keep you safe sane and protected. Thank you for being leaders. Be honorable and noble,men you were called,to be, keep,a,battle buddy and burn down hell. WIth love, R

  • USMC!Love!Hate!Relationship!

    “It May Be Difficult, But Everything is Difficult at First!”