Things that are wrong with the Marine Corps. The Master List.

things that are wrong with marine corps master list

Behold! The master list of everything that is wrong with the Marine Corps. We will take in all feedback and continue to build on this list over time. Keep in mind, that some of the things on this list are there for comedic purposes.”

Also, most of these actually pertain to DoD in general, and not just the MC.

Without further delay, here is the current list:

  1. Over-indulgence in esprit de corps: We spend so much effort congratulating ourselves for being Marines, but too little on asking how to ensure that distinction matters. We have this attitude of “I’m a Marine, I made it” as opposed to “How good can I possibly be? Am I what my country needs today and tomorrow?” Spoiler alert: country doesn’t need 18 year olds with rifles to storm beaches. We BADLY need a lightweight, amphibious raid force from the sea, usually operating at company level and below.
  2. Field Days: The idea of a married SNCO that doesn’t have to live with this bullshit coming into my room and telling me it’s unsat.
  3. MCIs: Seriously, has anyone ever taken one of these classes and not cheated? I once went to my Company Clerk and asked him how to get a proctor for an MCI Test because I wanted to do it legitimately, and he just looked at me with this dumbfounded stare for a few seconds before telling me that he had no idea how to do it and I should just cheat like everyone else. Unless your future college accepts MCIs for credit, they’re practically useless.
  4. Mandatory Fun Days: Nothing says “building camaraderie” quite like being forced to spend even MORE time with the same people that you work with and live with on a daily basis; and then getting chewed out by some NCO or SNCO because your belt (in your civilian clothes no less) extends past the buckle to the right, instead of to the left.
  5. Pro/Con Marks: I swear, no one in the entire marine corps knows how to properly rate their marines’ Proficiency and Conduct Marks. So, even though there are a pair of very simple charts that tell NCOs and SNCOs what ratings to assign, the whole process devolves into a popularity contest.
  6. Fitreps: Pretty much the only way to get promoted past the rank of Sgt is to make sure you have a Fitness Report that sparkles like a diamond. Unfortunately, that usually means being adept in finding ways to take the credit for your unit’s successes while shifting the blame for failures onto your subordinates. Then these same SNCO’s have the guile to talk about their “superior leadership abilities”.
  7. Illiteracy of SNCOs.
  8. Illiteracy of fucking everyone.
  9. Decreasing standards just to make people pass schools. 
  10. Professional reading list. 
  11. The prevalent sexism. “Hurr durr, she sucked dick to get promoted.” C’mon. It’s the 21st century. Grow up.
  12. The prevalent preferential sexism/racism 2.0. Don’t tell me you haven’t seen it. The platonic guy friend SNCOs with new female boots. The fucking homeboy back in the hood homeboys in the supply building. This shit has no place in the Corps.
  13. The eagerness to counsel and punish when someone fucks up and then turning a blind eye when someone does something good. It is meant to be an equal system. Want to counsel someone for a fuckup? That’s fine. Just don’t exclusively use the system for punishment. It’s meant to be used for both or not at all.
  14.  Mass punishments: Because if a marine goes off base, gets drunk and assaults a cab driver, it’s somehow my fault for not knowing that he was going to do that and preventing him.
  15. 15 minutes prior to 15 minutes prior to 15 minutes prior… : Everyone in the marine corps likes to say “You’re a grown man” yet they don’t even trust a marine with something as simple as being to work on time.
  16. Armorers and the armory in general. Fuck everyone and everything about it. I’ve never seen an armorer that wasn’t on BCP. Don’t even get butthurt about this one. Just shut the fuck up, sit down, and admit it.
  17. Chucks on Friday and pretty much everyone this last Commandant did.
  18. TA getting cut. The congress got a raise and our TA got cut. Just another public embarrassment. Applies to all branches.
  19. Receiving NJP because of an incident that happened off base somehow doesn’t qualify as double jeopardy.
  20. Imminent danger zone pay getting pro-rated by day. Just another way to nickel-and-dime the very people that volunteer for these bullshit deployments anyway. At least fucking pay us.
  21. SNCOs that were nowhere near the shooting at Camp Bastion on Sep 15, 2012 nominating themselves for CARs and NAMs. You guys know who you are.
  22. Junior enlisted marriages. We essentially bribe 19 year old kids (who are modestly paid and frequently away) to get married…GTFO the barracks + pay doubles + girlfriend from back home lives with you. It’s hard to say no. The marriages are generally badly matched between people too immature for the responsibility, finances are tight, babies are had, so the now Corporal with a toddler has to choose between EAS + uncertainty, or re-up and guaranteed paycheck. This logic is the start of many career guys’ decision to stick around…instead of retaining our best, we retain those who gave in to temptation and accepted the marriage bribe. As a result, our cream doesn’t rise to the top…the guys who need the job security rise to the top. Once there, they make shit decisions and make poisonous command climates, which perpetuates the cycle.
  23. Manpower Assignments. Our system makes the assumption that central manpower managers make better decisions for the individual and the service than individuals can do. As a result, getting the right guy in the right billet is a matter of chance.

To be continued… If you have any ideas to add to or modify this list, please leave them in the comment section below.


  • Anonymous

    I like this list. It says a lot of things. Too bad the ones to change it are lost in their blissful ignorance.

  • Just Noticed Something

    Good job, we know someone can cntrl + c, cntrl + v and rephrase.

    • Just Noticed Something

      My bad, not even rephrase. Word for word.

    • S.

      Why not use it? It’s pretty damn true. I can’t think of a more relevant website to use it. Can you? Do you not agree that more people should see it?

      • Just Noticed Something

        I do agree, I mean no negativity nor disrespect, I read this Reddit post not a while ago, wishing more people would see it, so it’s perfect.
        I guess what I was getting at is that in a glance, it looks like one brilliant person derived this, when in reality it was many Marines. Actually, maybe not more than two, but still. I also agree, it’s a relevant website, just that people wouldn’t have known it was from there. Respectfully.

        • S.

          Right on man, thanks for understanding.

          I want to also point out that this is just the beginning. This post will continually be updated as we come up with stuff or if people leave good points in the comments. That reddit post is just a good kickstart to the “Master List”.

        • S.

          Oh and also, there is a source link at the bottom of the list leading to the original reddit post.

  • About to EAS

    The Marine Corps needs to start making MOS knowledge a bigger factor in promotions; It should be a requirement for everyone to pass a knowledge test to be promoted.

    • 1171Marine

      Oh I couldn’t agree with you more on this point! I’ve been out now for almost 14 years, but times definitely haven’t changed in the promotion area. In my experience, all the Marine Corps cares about is wether or not you can pt or not. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS to them! There was this Marine in my platoon who I swear couldn’t read, but he could pt with the best of them…He got promoted to Sgt, but knew NOTHING about how to do his job. He was totally not dependable in accomplishing a mission, but yet the USMC felt he was a great Marine because he could PT. I’m not saying PT shouldn’t be part of the calculation, but the way it is now, your knowledge of your job has no bearing what so ever. Defininely needs to be looked at!

    • 17yrMarine

      Absolutely. I’ve known so many GySgt’s over the years that get promoted yet ask me how to do this or tell me that they are going to need me. For what? So you can make MSgt?! The Corps said you were all around better so you figure it out. I’ll see ya on the beach bud.

      • 17yrMarine

        Should of said promoted over me and others.

  • Dee

    The MCIs are a joke for the most part. The MCIs for each MOS are outdated-a lot have equipment that we don’t even use anymore!! Same thing with Marine Net. We need to do away with half of the ‘Annual Training’ Courses that don’t count for anything other than busy work.

    • Jim Arkadian

      While your correct, be aware that a lot of those “busy work” MCIs, when completed will translate to college credits (I know, I got my degree in half the time due to all the MCIs done (admittedly I rarely drink alcohol, so perhaps thats why I had time to do so many MCIs).

      • S.

        This is a really good point. I will add this to the list. Thank you.

        • Dan

          Worth noting.

          Most MCIs are for 1 credit, Even if you take three that are math level 1xx they don’t add up as one math course that is 3 credits.

          Sure, it is college credit, but it usually isn’t college credit you can use. If you can find tuition assistance use that instead.

          • 16yrMarine

            There was more than ten or so MCI’s that had 5 or more credits. Hell i have three MCI’s that are 8 credits each, Can you believe they even had an Interior wiring MCI i think it was either 5 or 8 credits by itself. A former co-worker did about 10 more MCI’s than me went to the same university as me and never did one damn elective class, just the core classes. The last time I did an MCI was 2010 or 2009. I haven’t looked at them since so i don’t know what has changed with them. Some of my credits actually came from classes required for FAP’s and TAD Billets, most people bitch about being FAP’d or TAD I learned to make the best of it. There is always a positive side somewhere, alot of these classes are college credits and no one tells anybody. Fuck it they fill up electives. Like the SNCO Academy that has alot of credits too.


        Most of those college credits don’t transfer anywhere. I know according to my SMART transcript I have 31 credits, only 5 of them transferred, and none of those 5 were from any of the over 20 MCI’s that I completed.

        • S.

          So.. so should I remove the thingy from number 3?

        • 16yrMarine

          You pick the wrong school My university accepted 50 credits, i still have 110 credits to go for my degree. Plus i only did 36 MCI’s. I’m not even using TA for my classes I use the Pell grant to cover most of the cost usually what is left to pay is 123.00 per class. That being said I came in 1997 before the 9/11 rush to boot camp when they just didn’t let anyone like felons, drug dealers, sex offenders, retards, and basic pieces of shit slip through to get the numbers up for the build up. All the stuff with the Marine Corps changing is just the corps. going back to way it was prior to 9/11, minus the crybabies, So the guys that came in after fell for the bait, now your on the hook. Please quit disrespecting the USMC for your lack of self respect.

          • S.

            Pointing out problems is the first step to a solution. Pointing out problems is not disrespect.

      • Dee

        Annual Training Courses are not MCIs. They don’t count towards PME’s or education points. While some MCIs are decent, many technical MOS MCIs are so out of date it’s not even funny.

  • mytruthyourreality

    #18 is vague. The USMC specifically went out of their way to give initial entry Marines thousands of dollars less, a year, in TA. Sure, no one is getting TA right now across the board but when it returns then they will still be jacked. The Corps is easily the most bottom heavy branch as they lean the hardest on their Jr Enlisted yet they dont’ want them to become educated, great. HOORAH!

  • Junyo

    You’re forgetting the latent homosexuality. Basing promotions on how much you work out and get sweaty with other guys. Armorers rock! 2111!

  • Terminal lance

    Well ya really wanna know what’s wrong with the marine corp…everything

  • Sgt

    From my personal experience in the USMC, another thing that is wrong is the excessive focus on uniforms, ceremonies, and senseless cleaning at the expense of time spent training and becoming better in your specialty. The importance of having time to yourself is often underestimated. Also, it’s common for junior personnel to be treated like trash. It’s one thing to discipline your subordinates, and it’s another to disrespect them.

    • 1171Marine

      Well said!

  • Retired SgtMaj U.S.M.C.

    That so called leaders from Corporal through 4 star Generals think they are above the law.
    Also, those that have an eagle or a star in their rank asignia (including the star in SgtMaj)

    make their own rules against those they do not like or approve of.

    • S.

      Hello Sgt. Maj. I agree that this is the case most of the time. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this issue.

      Thank you for posting.

      • Cutter

        during my four years, in 5 countries and duty stations. I ran across only one SgtMaj. that I could respect. He was great, helped me get id card for new wife when a pogue corporal told me it would take a month, I mentioned it to the SM and had it by that afternoon. But it was the early 70’s and he wore Beatle glasses and drove a Harley. But you could tell he loved his Marines.

  • 16yr Marine

    This site is in the MARINE TIMES, I could be on a ist of sites to watch. That is what they did on the Facebook Sites that got erased they went through the history and started to charge everyone that post anything (Example: PICS, Comments) that could justify a violation of the UCMJ. So that being said Watch out.

    • S.

      Thanks for the heads up. I am looking forward to an official response from the marine corps.

    • S.

      Thanks for the heads up. I am looking forward to an official response from the marine corps.

  • Honey Boo Boo Boo

    #11 sounds harsh and crude but I can see why male Marines are bitter with female Marines. First issue is that female Marines aren’t held up to similar physical fitness standards as males of the same age group-their standards are way easier. As we all know, physical fitness scores make up a chunk in your cutting scores/fit reps.

  • Target Factory Sgt

    Encouraging initiative then berating those that make decisions, using the argument that said person didn’t have enough rank to make that choice thus making grown men/ women feel like a kid still living at home with their parents

  • Target Factory Sgt

    Senior Leaders who hate the very people they are paid to lead. (E.I. : First Sergeants who hate Marines. If this is you, get out the world is not as scary as you think.)

  • Retired SSgt

    They need to get rid of the good old boy network. I did all the right things and still couldn’t get great FITREPS because I didn’t agree with everything that was said. I never sucked dick and never will. The Corps is great it’s the senior leadership that is the problem

  • Christopher Painter

    I served from 1992-1996 and I’ll admit that when I got out, I was burned out. A lot of these points resonate with me and I was pretty bitter. But the truth is I’m a better person with a better life as a result of becoming a Marine. I like to say that I’d do it all over but I’ll never do it again. Here’s to all my brothers out there…. make the best of it.

    • EAS SGT

      Totally agree with you man. It sucked and could have been better, but I’m glad I did it.

  • 17yrMarine

    Couple of things..mentioned below is MOS proficiency. That’s a great one because so many getting promoted seriously have no clue how to do their jobs. This is an issue that begins with the phrase “bloom where you are planted”…Many promotion boards say that and one two years ago said, when asked, “was MOS proficiency considered important by the board?” The boards response was, “MOS proficiency was important but wasn’t something considered. We focused more on those that bloomed where they were planted” Did everyone not sign a contract stating they will be a specific MOS? Bloom where you are planted should only apply to a Marine that was FAP for 1 year and the Marines that went on B billets….once. Marines that go to B Billets twice obviously can’t succeed in their MOS and don’t care for it. They should be forced to LAT MOVE or get out. I’m tired of training those promoted over me how to do their jobs. Most I train only listen enough so that they can go to a meeting with the brass and speak intelligently enough to sound like they know wtf they are talking about.

    Second, tape test. If a Marine scores a first class then he is allegedly in good physical condition and should be allowed, if needed, to tape a little higher. If the Corps wants models they should put it on their freaking recruiting posters. For those that say scoring a first class is easy then change the score of a first class to 250 instead of 225. It wouldn’t hurt my feelings nor many others that aren’t afraid to put the sweat in but aren’t genetically gifted with a slender build or fat neck. Or, MCCS could tape the individual service member along with a real doctor’s certification (not flight surgeon) that the service member is in good physical condition. Marines should be in fighting shape…100% true statement. But we are Rottweiler’s AND Doberman’s. 😉

    Last, senior enlisted leaders looking to their careers before taking care of their Marines. I had a MSgt tell me recently that I need my retirement. I said I don’t NEED it but it would be very nice to have. He said, “well I need mine”. I said, “no offense, but the minute you begin making choices as a leader based on (you need your retirement) instead of what’s obviously right and wrong then no offense, you are no longer an effective leader of men and women”

    In my opinion there are many things that are a pain but not that bad. But I believe in my heart that the three things listed above tear at the very fabric of our Corps.

    • 17yrMarine

      Above in number 1 in relation to two billets I’m talking about 2 B billets while a GySgt and below and in relation to my comment about FAP i mean FAPed once. Marines that are consistently FAPed usually either want out of their particular job or they aren’t good at it. This isn’t 100% accurate statement but the tape is no where near as close to accurate as that statement. lol

  • kitfox

    how about explaining what any of that shit means so that non-USMC people can follow it?


      Excellent point. I have my college finals next week, but I’ll see if I can go through and make some edits to make it non-usmc friendly. Thanks for the tip! 🙂

      Safety and Peace

  • terminal pfc

    The fact that the corps will give a personality disorder discharge to anyone who reports maltreatment at the hands of a Sr enlisted


      Hmm… that’s actually very interesting.

      Are you out yet? Would you care to share more about that incident?

      • terminal pfc

        Went to bridgeport with a clb and since i was a stupid boot i accidentaly woke up a 1stsgt because the sgt of the guard never explained were his rack was. He was fine with it and never bitched at me, but the Sgt had my NCO’s keep me up for almost a week and a half without sleep and then work me like a horse during the day. I finally had the opportunity to get out for a FAP to a AMtrax unit and jumped on it but they only planned on fucking with us more and i Had a group of Cpl’s force me to put shit in my pocket and carry it around bridgeport and committed other acts of hazing along the way then told my nco’s that i disobeyed direct orders and disrespected them. I tried reporting the incident but instead recieved threats of an NJP from my SNCOIC and was told that i wasn’t hazed and it was “training”. I brought it all the way up to a CGI because of constant threats and backlash if i were to continue and the constant scrutiny from my peers who were brainwashed by my nco’s who reported me as a malingerer. My command (upon hearing that i had sent up a CGI within a week or so gave me a five day letter and i was gone.

        • lostinthesauce

          You sound like a lot of these uppity boots that have been coming into the Marine Corps as of late. Bridgeport definitely shows who the men are and who the little kids are…

          • NINJA_PUNCH

            No kidding… A sgt throwing a fit and hazing the new guy for over a week because he forgot to tell the new guy where his bed was? Talk about acting like a little kid…

            It’s a good thing that Terminal PFC was a man and stood up for himself, otherwise things like this might continue.

          • EAS SGT

            It sounds like there is more to the story…

        • corpslifeisnolife

          Standing up for yourself when you face so much scrutiny from the marine corps takes real courage. I have a lot of respect you people like you.

  • Sgt

    I’ve translated some points into civilian terms. 19-22 I thought were self explanatory. Here it goes.
    Civilian terms- your actions as a Marine should mean more than just your title. The Marines need to focus on what it does, and not be a show boat.
    Marine Corps Institute (MCIs)- courses that Marines take to pick up rank or learn something. These are like company online courses you take in the civilian world at work, especially if you work in a corporation or big company. Generally, these courses are online. Marine Net is a bunch on online courses. And you can easily cheat on all of them. Few of these courses count towards college credits- generally lower division courses. Some schools take them, others won’t
    Picture being at work and in addition, having to spent hours being a janitor in addition to your duties. Then, when your boss is pissed at something else, he/she takes it out on you.
    Proficiency and conduct- This is used to grade Marines from Private to Corporal. The proficiency is how good the Marine is at in terms of his job, combat skills, physical fitness, and leadership. Conduct is basically how the Marine behaves around peers, subordinates and superiors. Motivation and enthusiasm also falls into conduct. In the civilian world, the are called performance reviews. Leaders sometimes have no idea how to grade them.
    Fitreps or Fitness Reports are used by Sergeants and above. These are a mixture between a performance review and a resume. You write what your duties and accomplishments are and you turn it into your boss. Your boss and his boss grades you. Then it gets pushed up to Headquarters Marine Corps (like the highest level corporate office in the civilian work place) and it gets look at again before being published.
    You wonder why dumb and illiterate Staff Non- Commissioned Officers get promoted. These are Staff Sergeants through Sergeant Major ranks. Ever worked for a boss who was clueless?
    The really dumb people making it as Marines. Or seen a really dumb coworker who you wonder ‘how did he get hired?’
    Decreasing standards just to make people pass schools. For example, boot camp standards has lowered.
    Professional reading list. These are books that the Commandment of the Marine Corps list out and suggest Marines reading. To prove you read it, you write a summary and turn it into your boss. I’ve only read 1 in my 6 yrs being in. And not a whole lot of leaders care about these books.
    The prevalent sexism. Here’s the controversy here, male Marines think female Marines receive better promotional opportunities than male Marines. In a sense, it is true because there is a great disparity on male and female physical standards. Physical standards (we have 2 physical fitness test) are factored into promotion. Since female standards are lower, they have an easier time getting a higher score in this category thus increasing her scores to get promoted. On the other end, there are males that don’t like females in this business because they are simply females. This sexism has to stop.
    The prevalent preferential sexism/racism. This is an issue the USMC. Some units are worst than others. Some units barely have this issue.
    The eagerness to counsel and punish when someone fucks up and then turning a blind eye when someone does something good. It is meant to be an equal system. Want to counsel someone for a fuckup? That’s fine. Just don’t exclusively use the system for punishment. It’s meant to be used for both or not at all. Counselings should be used as a guidance as well as a reprimand.
    Mass punishments: Because if a marine goes off base, gets drunk and assaults a cab driver, it’s somehow my fault for not knowing that he was going to do that and preventing him. The logic of mass punishment is to build teamwork. In training exercises, it works because you are training for a combat situation that can result in death or injury if mistakes occur. Outside of training, it pisses everyone off because you get punished for what some idiot did at the bar 5 miles away from you.
    15 minutes prior to 15 minutes prior to 15 minutes prior… : Everyone in the marine corps likes to say “You’re a grown man” yet they don’t even trust a marine with something as simple as being to work on time. It makes sense to tell your Marines when you show up. Not tell them, ‘arrive 15 mins prior to 11:45.’
    Armorers and the armory in general. Fuck everyone and everything about it. I’ve never seen an armorer that wasn’t on BCP (means you’re fat or obese). Some of these guys can be assholes.
    Chucks on Friday and pretty much everyone this last Commandant did. Having to wear a particular uniform on Friday just because you have to. Chucks are service ‘Charlie’ uniforms consisting of dark green trousers, khaki short sleeves shirt with ribbons, a cover and black leather shoes.
    TA (Tuition Assistance) getting cut. The congress got a raise and our TA got cut. Just another public embarrassment. Applies to all branches.
    Receiving NJP because of an incident that happened off base somehow doesn’t qualify as double jeopardy. Since the military and civilian jurisdictions are different, this doesn’t count as double jeopardy. However, in a Non Judicial Punishment case, you get tried by a commanding officer and you have lesser rights as an accuse than in a court martial. The NJP is a way to streamline the military justice system.
    Imminent danger zone pay getting pro-rated by day. Just another way to nickel-and-dime the very people that volunteer for these bullshit deployments anyway. At least fucking pay us.
    SNCOs that were nowhere near the shooting at Camp Bastion on Sep 15, 2012 nominating themselves for CARs and NAMs. You guys know who you are.
    Junior enlisted marriages. We essentially bribe 19 year old kids (who are modestly paid and frequently away) to get married…GTFO the barracks + pay doubles + girlfriend from back home lives with you. It’s hard to say no. The marriages are generally badly matched between people too immature for the responsibility, finances are tight, babies are had, so the now Corporal with a toddler has to choose between EAS + uncertainty, or re-up and guaranteed paycheck. This logic is the start of many career guys’ decision to stick around…instead of retaining our best, we retain those who gave in to temptation and accepted the marriage bribe. As a result, our cream doesn’t rise to the top…the guys who need the job security rise to the top. Once there, they make shit decisions and make poisonous command climates, which perpetuates the cycle.
    Manpower Assignments. Our system makes the assumption that central manpower managers make better decisions for the individual and the service than individuals can do. As a result, getting the right guy in the right billet is a matter of chance.

  • Isaac

    Simple things become unnecessarily complicated because it makes too much sense. I remember in my school days, It was Thursday night Field day, we also had Fuck Field Day PT that next day. It just rained during the middle of the night, so it was nice and muddy outside that morning, but hey, that didn’t delay PT with an upcoming field day inspection just right after, with the entire platoon coming in from PT with their muddied shoes, and sweaty, eager to take a shower, we were restricted from using the downstairs head, we all had to share the upstairs head, which is 8 showers, 4 stalls, and 4 urinals, and there’s more than 50 of us. So it overcrowded. Not to mention, we couldn’t just walk the hallways with our towels covering our junk (females in the barracks). Even better, it was around 0700 back from PT, but we had to be outside in formation by 0830 (15 prior, so be 0815 outside). So we had one hour and 15 min to shower, get in cammies, field day the mess created in the hallway from the PT, and the upstairs head, and final finish our own rooms. The least that could’ve been done was use the downstairs head and THEN field day it afterward, but common sense would’ve been to delay PT until anytime AFTER inspection. Ironically, in an effort to keep the barracks nice and clean, a task so simple to do, they make one hell of a messy situation by making it more complicated than it needs to be! Because IT JUST MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE!

    • USMCFormer

      I read this with interest, and agree with your complaint, and quite honestly having spent over a decade in the Marine Corps the sheer stupidity of it does not surprise me. I can conjecture that it was done by an NCO (or SNCO) who didn’t live in the said barracks and was adamant that his platoon stuck to HIS PT Schedule!! ( regardless if you had an inspection or not). The USMC is the most extreme branch of the military, and therefore exaggerates all the potential stupidity.
      When enlisted I played my fair share of field day games. AS a LT I was on the whole exempt from this bullshit, but there is a few things about the whole field day evolution that really got on my nerves!!
      When managing a financial office and needing my Marines to work longer hours on Thursday for a senior Officer brief on a Friday ( no- that wasn’t my idea), I would always get some dickhead SNCO having a talk with me either Friday afternoon or the following week that a certain number of Marines were late for his precious field day formations.
      And I always used to respond by saying that the Colonel of the MAG dictated the later working hours on Thursday ( not me!) and that accomplishing the financial and logistical business of the Aircraft Group was a lot more important than making sure his precious barracks were absurdly clean!!
      I tried to play middleman by impressing upon some Lt Col’s that it was important to make sure enlisted men were not overworked on Thursdays if cleaning the barracks was more important than accomplishing our primary mission!!
      After a few weeks I decided to write an e-mail outlining why my Marines were being forced to stay late on Thursday so their ass was covered from a senior enlisted hothead!!
      And another incident that sticks out in my memory- while being unlucky enough to pull duty on a Saturday afternoon I received a call from a Cpl in the barracks. After going over their, they asked me to inspect a portion of their barracks so they could be let go for the weekend. when I inquired further, it turns out a GySgt had failed their field day inspection due to scuff marks on an outside sideboard, and that said GySgt hadn’t even shown up that Saturday to re-inspect it!!
      As the OOD I immediately let all the Marines go, apologized to them for having their Saturday morning wasted, got the GySgts name, and located him on Monday, then had a very impolite conversation with him about the importance of keeping your commitments, and not harassing hard working enlisted personnel unnecessarily!!
      This just reflects a common compliant with todays USMC, but it was just as prevalent in the 1990’s. Too much obsession over trivial superficialities; poor judgment and poor decisions based on the premise that Marines can do everything at once just because they wear digital cammies saying USMC.

  • vma223

    I was in for 6 years and it realy was a waste of life. The people running this country are a joke and I will not risk my life for these reprebates. They expect you to fight and die while back home all the bums are sucking the country dry immigrants come and go as they please while also sucking the country dry. The media glorrifies one whore after another. Uhhh no thanks and damn Im happy to be out. Cant wait to see the draft kick back in so these punks can be forced in hell yeah ill be waving them off laughing my ass off.

    • FailedToAdapt

      You kind of contradict yourself. You say that you don’t wanna fight for these assholes and I can sympathize with you on that. But, you say we should put a draft back in. No, no, no! How about we decide as a people who we should go to war with. Hey, how about the young men and women decide if the nation should go to war? They are the ones fronting the cost of it. I bet you if we instituted this policy America would fight fewer wars. We have better quality of lives as Americans because we would spend our time creating things to make our lives better, not creative ways to kill our fellow man and profit from it. I am not saying we should not defend ourselves or not have a military. I do think though if going to war plans saw the scrutiny of the public eye, we would see them as what they usually are: unnecessary profiteering off the lives of the young and innocents. By the way I cannot take credit for this idea. It belongs to Smedley Butler–every Marine’s man-crush.

      • madmike1968

        In the Swiss military it is beat into every recruits head that they are civilians first and soldiers last. The drill pay they earn is a fraction of their civilian salary(sort of like unemployment). And all defense contractors are kept on a short lease so they don’t make substantial profits. As for a draft I guarantee we would fight less wars with a fair draft since every family would have skin in the game. Plus draftees in many respects were vastly superior to volunteers.

        • FailedToAdapt

          Yeah, but people of the lower socioeconomic class always bear the brunt of the drafts as the higher classes tend to weasel their way out. I do think the Swiss ideology about civilian first, soldier second is brilliant in helping to keep their nation peaceful.

          • madmike1968

            My dad got drafted after graduating medical school and my uncle got nailed after earning a B.S. in chemistry. But they grew up middle class. You just have to make sure there are no deferments.

  • freeatlastfreeatlast

    I would add the lack of MOS proficiency in promotion decisions. I know that Pros/Cons are supposed to cover that, but we all know that they almost never do. It just becomes a popularity contest with NCOs and SNCOs which usually favors the loudest dick suckers.

    I would also point to the strange fetish the Marine Corps has for shaved heads. Who will best complete the mission? Why the bald one of course, he looks like a real motivator! It’s bad enough I had to pay an average of 40 bucks a month to get my hair cut every week, I also had to make my head look like a used toilet brush.

    Thirdly, the godawful boots they make you wear. It amazes me that Bates and Danner manage to make such cheap boots, and sell them for such high prices. When I was in Afghanistan, every chance I could I changed out my Marine Corps issued foot cutters with a pair of cheaper, lighter, better cushioned boots I bought online. They lasted me an entire deployment.

  • DurkaDurka

    1 word MOTARD

  • Clown Shoes

    Can someone please explain to me why you automatically become an Infantry Unit Leader MOS 0369 once you pick up Staff Sergeant? Why is Infantry Unit Leaders Course not an MOS producing school? How can some ass hat coming off of recruiting duty or the drill field be given such a coveted set of responsibilities without having to actually PROVE himself and EARN it? Hopefully TECOM and HQMC take a cue from General Nicholson and create policy that starts weeding out the ones who don’t deserve the title. Being a Marine is not for everyone… being a SNCO is for even less… and being an 0369 is for even fewer. I am quickly learning that politics play an even larger role in career advancement than technical and tactical proficiency. However, career advancement in the scope of the individual Marine does absolutely NOTHING to better the Marine Corps as a whole. It is about time the weak and selfish get weeded out to make room for those who still believe they wear a uniform every day knowing they are a part of something bigger than themselves. I refuse to believe that it HAS to be this way. I see way too many SNCO’s who have an irrational sense of entitlement. I believe it is a byproduct of a broken process and a result of not enough like minded individuals who are willing to challenge the status quo (tactfully of course). I know you have to pick your battles but once you take the path of least resistance, two things happen: 1.) You become a “yes man” and 2.) You lose credibility (directly and indirectly) with the Marines who trust you to lead, teach, and mentor them. The longer you walk that path, the further removed you become from your roots. Hell yes it is easier to throw up your hands and say “that’s just the way it is” and make generalized statements about the Corps being void of common sense. But WHY?! My presumption… RIDING IT OUT UNTIL RETIREMENT. I honestly cannot blame anyone for that attitude because this job is hard, it sucks, it ages you fast, it hurts your body, and you miss so much of life with your family. However, I DO blame those who let that attitude define their career as a senior enlisted Marine and take no measures to better this organization. When I was promoted to Corporal, my 1stSgt at the time, now retired SgtMaj Pederson, told me “The privilege of rank is to serve”. Ever since that day I have told the same to every Marine I have promoted. I think the light at the end of the tunnel is so distracting for so many people they forget why they walked into the recruiters office in the first place.

    • Secret Squirrel

      Nicely said! I agree wholeheartedly with everything that you wrote!

  • stupidcorps

    My SNOIC couldn’t even read out my promotion warrant, without stopping every few words and stuttering. Every word was mispronounced and stuttered. He couldn’t even read! How pathetic…

  • 2111

    Your weapon isn’t clean. Take it back outside and clean it until it is.

  • no name

    Telling the Corpsman he can’t send a Marine to sick call when he is sick and would like medical attention. Thankfully I’m in the navy, where we understand that if it’s almost broke it WILL break in the field.

  • Advice seeker

    I was planning to join the Marines right after I finish college. However after coming across this website I’m a bit frightened. I’m 18 years old and a Hispanic female. I’m afraid of the racism I might experience… How often does racism happened with Hispanic women ? Should I still join?

    • FailedToAdapt

      No, absolutely not. There are so many Marines who are depressed and hate their lives because the Marine ad campaign sold them on a complete utter lie. Just continue to look around the site and if that does not convince you that this a depraved organization than I just don’t know what will.

      • advice seeker

        I am very convinced after the replies I have received thank you very much!

        • FailedToAdapt

          No problem. Now do me a favor and go live a happy and healthy life.

    • Knob_Gaudy

      The only reason you should consider the military after college is to get funding for grad school, and even then do it in a branch that actually believes in education and doesn’t take pride in being dumb and brawny.Either way, you are wasting FOUR years of your life. If you’re planning on going to officer candidate school its slightly better, but in general the marine corps is not a place to fit in if you are educated and can practice critical thinking. Do you like to spend your free time blowing all your money at bars and getting wasted, hanging out with potential rapists? This is what adulthood looks like in many parts of the military.

      • advice seeker

        Thank you very much. What branch would you prefer?

        • Knob_Gaudy

          Air force without a doubt. Go in as an officer after college with them, your opportunities and skills when you get out will be far more substantial than in the marines, where employers won’t care that you yelled really loud and did lots of pushups.

        • DemotivateMe

          Air force or Coast Guard. Both have it nice, Coast Guard will be a bit more difficult to get into though, but they treat you professionally first name basis type stuff. Thats something you will not find in the corps. Most marines will pride themselves as professional because the uniforms make you look so, but with all the constant bullshit and mind games and holding my grown ass adult hand all the time, it sure as hell isn’t.

    • hooyut

      Racism? Are you serious? Your biggest threat will be that gunny that puts you right in front of his desk and wants to get in the new girl’s utilities. Racism is not a huge issue in the marine corps, its sexism, sexual assault, and rape. There is racism, yes, I will not deny that, but it is a far more rare issue from what I have seen after being in infantry. Do not join, it is an outright terrible decision. But when you ignore our warnings and do, get ready to have every marine in sight try to get in your pants, o yeah and your new nickname as a female marine is wook.

      • advice seeker

        Thank you. May I ask what is a wook?

        • NINJA_PUNCH

          “Wook” is short for “Wookie” (as in Chewbacca from Star Wars). It’s based on the widespread (and often accurate) perception that female marines don’t have time to shave their legs for three months during boot camp.

          • free_bird

            Wookie stands for Wookie Monster, as an acronym for WM (Women Marine).

    • Sgt

      Racism is rare now a days. Sexism occurs on occasion, more so in infantry units. When I was a boot with my buddies who were in the infantry, they told me female Marines are bad, and that they are bad news. However, when I got assigned to a reserve unit, I worked with some female Marines who are decent people as well as decent Marines.

      Male Marines are bitter that female Marines have in easier in terms of being able to get higher physical fitness scores with counts 50% towards promotion. Other times, female Marines get hit on by male Marines- which at times does constitute as sexual harassment. I’ve scolded at some Marines for doing this to females before.

      • advice seeker

        Thank you for your answer!

      • Proud

        are you a Marine? You seem like you have a very good heart!

    • shifafa

      No, NEVER!

  • Tarred One

    “We BADLY need a lightweight, amphibious raid force from the sea, usually operating at company level and below.”

    Couldn’t agree more. Having once been in a small, semi-independent detached unit within the Corps, I saw many instances where such a force would be highly useful…training with Royal Marine Commandos merely reinforced this opinion.

  • $87668012

    pro con….it’s not “productivity”, it’s proficiency.


      That was brain cramp on my part. It’s fixed now.

  • S.

    I don’t think you can get 100% disability for PTSD.

    • madmike

      I think you can but it’s still immoral. No one who is able bodied should get %100, I don’t care how bad the PTSD is. It should be like Australia where they get the money cut off after 5 years. We don’t need the Taliban with Marines like this gaming the system and screwing the tax payer. That money is supposed to be used for defending this country not to subsidize a middle class lifestyle someone doesn’t deserve. When I was in NOBODY got disability unless they literally were blind, paralyzed or missing a body part, and that’s the way it should be.

      • S.

        I don’t think it’s fair to limit disability to those three injuries, however I agree that it’s totally immoral to get what you don’t deserve. I know that they cut people off if they start making too much money on their own, but other than that they usually don’t.

        • Knob_Gaudy

          You should add parasite ex servicemen faking injuries to take disability, to the list article

        • madmike

          I understand TBI, hearing loss or fucking up your back boing manual labor but it seems to me that there are way to many whiny crybabies bleeding the system for every little ache and pain. I only know 2 vets from my unit(1988-1992) collecting disability while it seems almost all marines today are collecting for something. I’ve heard “once a marine always a marine” but these guys are taking it to a extreme new level. Now it’s do 4 years in the corps and get a pension for life. 47% of vets now leave with pensions and that is simply economically unsustainable not to mention fraudulent.

          • DemotivateMe

            well i don’t rate disability but i will say for those marines that do they damn should claim that shit. if i injured myself on a job you should get disability unless your being a fucking retard or you broke your leg playing volleyball with your friends on the weekend, but if its work related go all for it in my beliefs just because those injuries could stick with the rest of your life. I mean wouldn’t you want a little extra help since now you are disqualified from a variety of different job options because you hurt your back lets say. I understand the little petty bullshit like these motherfuckas coming to medical for a hurt finger or shit like that but some injuries can really affect your future. just saying.


      You can get 100% for mental health disorders, but it requires some pretty extreme psychological and social impairment. Here’s the general symptoms that might rate 100%:

      Total occupational and social impairment, due to such symptoms as: gross impairment in thought processes or communication; persistent delusions or hallucinations; grossly inappropriate behavior; persistent danger of hurting self or others; intermittent inability to perform activities of daily living (including maintenance of minimal personal hygiene); disorientation to time or place; memory loss for names of close relatives, own occupation, or own name

      • Zach Belt

        How much percentage for a cardiac arrest and a weak heart valve and some brain damage when I stopped breathing?

        • NINJA_PUNCH

          It really depends on how much brain damage and how healthy your heart is overall. If you still have a pretty healthy heart, you might get 10% or 20%. If you had congestive heart failure, you might get the full 100%. As I’m not on the VA disability board, I can’t say with absolute certainty.

          Also, this may not be specifically helpful, but here’s the legal guidelines for cardiovascular issues.

  • Knob_Gaudy

    I will say thats highly unethical, and when the country gets over the whole soldier worship thing, its people like you who game the system that are gonna help the rug get torn, screwing everyone else who needed those benefits.

  • 1995to1999

    #22 is what I remember as the problem with the Corp. All the others on the list look like symptoms of #22. A strong culture of promoting the idiots, then they breed like rabbits.

  • dddduh

    the fact it is socially unacceptable to throw trash away in your trash can no matter what between 0600 and 0800. god forbid a SNCO comes in and sees one empty soda can in your empty trash can

    • DemotivateMe

      I got blasted by my snco once because my trash can was dirty, oh go figure dipshit its a trash can, i bet if i went to his house his fat ass would have loads of grease plastered over the sides of his trash can.

  • Green weenie

    Giving away NonRecs when your not even close to picking up at all just a way to stack you with paper work to F*** you in the future…and you know there trying to F*** you when your NonRec says lack of leadership but yet the marine himself has a medical issue that prevents him from doing his job anyways add this to the list I’ve signed like 6 of these for no damn reason oh wait I’m on a medical board for back problems lets just try to admin discharge his ass if we can pull that off to bad you can’t penetrate the walls of the med board process you green weenie jokes on you or You probably can if you end up making me snap at a SNCdumass luckily I’ve learned to play the game IHUSMC!!!

    • COD is real

      Totally true I’ve signed like 4 of these holly crap I thought I was the only one but guess it’s a typical thing because I started getting them as soon as I got a medical issue O.o anybody else?? Anybody for medical issues to?

      • Zach Belt

        I think I’m getting med step for a cardiac arrest and new symptoms have came up like sleep apnea and they’re trying to accuse me of lying about it cause I didn’t have the paperwork for it last drill. I did forget it in my car but I’ll have it this month. But it’s taken them two years to finally put me on a med board and they took me off of lod status for no reason. Any advice?

        • NINJA_PUNCH

          They can accuse you of lying all they like, but as long as you have the paperwork to back yourself up, you should be ok.

          Also, are you currently still on a med board, or did they take you off of that too?

  • Superduper

    Suicide watch…. Personally I believe that it does not help a person seeking for help think about it the reason the person is thinking of taking his life away is probably because he is going through a ruff time to begin with and I can guarantee a majority of the cases are due to the military and the way they treat people thinking it’s some type of joke or something (I’ve witnessed meetings where all the higher ups did was talk about how they gave ass chewings and scared so and so and made so and so do this and have a good laugh about it) but here is my point u seek for that type of help and the so called “confidential” spreads like a disease everybody knows about you now your just a pussy so not only does everybody kno your business now but now your locked in your barracks room an have to check In every hour…..

  • F all of you

    Suicide prevention is crap the fact that as soon as they find out your going suicidal they lock you I your room they make you check in every hour they have some dbag follow you everywhere and it’s not confidential at all by the time you seek help everybody knows your situation your nothing but a pussy and they joke about what’s the way your going to kill yourself and bet like it’s some type of game usmc piece of shit I’ve lost a good man cus of you pricks

  • shifafa

    Stupid uniforms and stupider haircuts!

  • I look 130 but am 160

    You’re a perfectly great looking Marine, but because you don’t meet the number on the scale you’re put on the Fat Body Program. When you just have an ass and thighs that were built ever since your young days playing Volleyball, you weigh more than the fat roommate who looks no where as good as you do. But they don’t want to hear that. You don’t meet the weight requirement and you’re automatically deemed as a fat body. How’s that for morale, humiliation, and faith in your chain of command.

  • Formerusmcwife

    The uniforms and haircuts are a huge turn on for alot of women. It’s very hot and sexy.

    • Formerusmctaco


    • Older Marine Vet

      1) That may be your personal opinion, but I have never seen any real consistent evidence of this remotely near a Marine Corps Base, or in other parts of the country.

      2) Former USMC wife- I can conjecture that you are divorced, which is the way most Marine marriages tend to go, because very few women will want to put up with the military lifestyle.

      3) If you join an organization based solely on how a uniform looks and its supposed ability to attract women, you are being very immature about your career choices. The uniform itself won’t change the man inside it, and its whats inside ultimately counts.

      4) If you believe this yourself, you can go move to a Marine Base where their will be no shortage of male Marines lining up to gain your favor.

      Be very careful what you wish for!!

    • Knob_Gaudy

      You’re into guys who all interchangeably look alike and share very similiar values and points of view. Why wouldn’t you cheat, if what you’re into is an ideal and a look, not an individual human being?

    • fieldradiohater

      can you also fit $1,400/month in the “hot and sexy” category?

    • shifafa

      Only in loony dreams! Get a grip, son.
      Disabled, Retired MSgt, 1962-1984

    • Chris

      Almost as hot and sexy as qualifying for welfare, food stamps and WIC. Luckily, Marines with a kid or two get the bad look and the poverty, too!

  • Pissed off

    Get rid of all the service uniforms: Service A’s, B’s, C’s and D’s. Keep the Dress Blues only. This will save money and save precious space. Also, haircuts should be every 2-3 weeks.

    • Brass Neck

      I honestly don’t mind the Delta’s or Alpha’s but seriously, wtf do we need to wear the Charlies every. freaking. Friday?!?!

      Bravos……hmmm…..mixed feelings on that.

      And shaving in the field………screw that, our predecessors weren’t getting chewed out for not shaving in Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Chosin Reservoir, or Khe Sanh.

  • Pakman

    When I joined the Marines, I was totally hard core. Graduated honor man in bootcamp. High marks in school. The Corps just wears that out of you. The “old salts” basically puts down anyone who tries to be the best and makes you jaded. The SNCO’s are all ass kissers and idiots. Too much favoritism everywhere ensuring that more ass kissers will be promoted to the higher ranks. I was lucky enough to go to Army Ranger school and Airborne school. I was impressed with the professionalism at Ranger school, and how everyone tries to be the best. For all of professionalism that we try to portray, there is very little of it once you get to the fleet. Also, we are so caught up in trying to tell everyone we’re Marines so we’re better than everyone, that we are jaded by it and start to believe our own BS without constantly trying to live up to it. I totally agree with the married Marines as well. They irritated the shit out of me when I was in. They were always whining about everything because of they’re family.

  • soapscum31

    How about This new firewatch policy that was I’m guessing reinstated from the past where every Floor of the barracks has two rovers, a staff and officer in the duty lounge, and a COG and SOG. Absolutely unnecessary and pointless. Like what when im on roving duty wtf am I gonna do to calm a situation with drunkass marines? I get told to fuck off and have beer bottles chucked at me. I can’t tell the duty becuase ill buddyfuck said drunkass marine and in turn causing a chain of events where because of that marine the company gets punished with more classes and breathalyzers, stricter dutys with more cluless bootentants, less leeway with small things like 6105’s for haircuts and “unservicable” uniforms, company punishment hikes, higher ups in the armory spot checking shit as well as in the motorpool (yeah no shit the hummvees are dusty its a fuckin desert). But yeah kinda got on a tangent there but this is my life right now.
    Recruiter: “Yeah in less than a year you’ll be seeing the pinkmist”
    Me: 🙂
    3 years and a Meu later oh yeah guess what! UDP!

    • older marine vet

      I’ve been out of the Corps for years, but Amo’s ‘Reawakening’ contained a lot of petty, unnecessary and micromanaging points that the previous Commandants I served under never felt the need to overregulate. In my frame of reference ( the 1990’s up to 2005) I am sure there were units who took duty to this extreme, but all units I served with went by an unwritten rule that we keep the numbers on duty to a minimum ( or reasonable level of personnel in case of emergency) so as not to ‘screw’ too many people.
      We hear more about the stupidity of everyday life in the Marine Corps simply because communication has changed so much over the last two decades. In 1993 I am sure there were a fair share of problems, but my Fleet commands never felt the need to over react by implementing more micromanaging rules, and mass punishment ( on a platoon or company scale) really was an exceptional event.
      When I was in, one of the most dumbest or superficial thing that stood out was issuing a “Values” Card that enlisted were forced to carry around everywhere. I don’t know if that practice is still Corps wide, but at the time it seemed a very stupid and unnecessary requirement to try and solve problems that are essentially unsolvable. Will adding another stupid regulation really change anything?
      I also do not get why the Corps of today feels the need to force Marines to wear their ID Cards everywhere ( plastic sleeve on the shoulder). We managed fine without this practice in the early 90’s, since common sense dictated when we should carry it and when we shouldn’t. Hell, my dog tag tattoo ( or meat tags) was sufficient enough to get me through the gate a few times without the MPs feeling the need to write up paperwork!!
      It really is a shame that the Corps has degenerated where it treats all of the once willing adults in it like children- essentially overregulating to the point where it just drives out the very people that it should be wanting to retain.
      As an older guy, if I had a son I’d just tell him not to bother joining. The USMC just isn’t an institution that is evolving for the 21st century. I’ve always respected its values and standards and done my best to live by them, but to quote Terminal Lance
      “Never push your loyal people to the point where they just don’t give a damn!”

      • Brass Neck

        Thank goodness we don’t carry any of those cards, but as a new boot (yeah, go ahead and chew me out for having a high and tight, standing parade rest in a fast food restaurant line, carrying a MARPAT backpack etc. JK I don’t act that retarded unlike many of my fellow peers)

        But these days you can easily get an NJP just for not shaving, you can get chewed out for not giving the proper greeting of the day to an NCO/Officer, and yes we are forced to carry our ID’s EVERYWHERE we go.

        And the Reawakening…..Holy Shit it is a passive way to say to NCO’s to be more of a douchebag than previous. Don’t get me wrong as I’ve met some pretty cool NCO’s, but a majority I’ve met have chewed me out for everything I’ve said above. Chesty Puller would’ve been pissed if he saw today’s Marine Corps.

  • Brass Neck

    Weekly haircuts and shaving everyday. I really hate those people who say that it’s all about “professional” appearance. Chesty Puller and Smedley Butler could care less about having a high and tight, mid reg (actually my favorite), or low reg, and worried more about who you are as a person.

    And NJP’s for the dumbest reasons! I know a guy who got NJP’ed just because he got married and the NCO’s didn’t want to do his paperwork. WTF?!?!

  • Bob

    The commondant’s reading list. You have to be an NCO before you rate reading two-sylable words. Also, I can’t be the only one who has witnessed some douche protest on the grounds that they were the senior PFC. This kid was making a fuss because he got a roomate when he had been living solo for weeks in the barracks. Pogs who spend their entire time on float talking smack about the Navy. Teufelhunde who quote full metal jacket. Grunts bringing to your attention for the thousand and first time that you’re in a pog mos. Hardchargers who talk in drill instructor voice. MOTIVATORS. Dedicators with horseshoe cuts. Idiots setting off the fire alarm from burning floor wax or boot polish. Anyone who doesn’t purposely shoot the berm and tear up some grass when wearing a gas mask on the range. Dudes fighting over some ugly wm on Okinawa when I was stuck on duty. Drunk jarheads bellowing hurrah after blubering through the Marine’s Hymn when they don’t even know the 2nd or 3rd verse. Anyone who quizzes you on the general orders after boot camp. Getting in trouble for smelling like a brewery at PT. (What do they expect that time?) Liberty attire: most incidents occur after a marine’s shirt has come untucked. Getting the NCO lecture yet again when you finally get your blood stripe. Having accrued more leave than you can sell back when you separate. The debate over wether P.I. or San Diego is tougher. Answer: a tie because I don’t care and they’re both crawling with jarheads. (I actually had a lot of fun too in the corps but got a kick out of the cite.)

  • I didn’t sign up for this crap

    I am a boot LCpl newly arrived at my first duty station, I already hold a billet because my asvab score was higher than everyone’s in the unit. How does this make me qualified to hold a billet which has nothing to do with what I was taught in mos school about my job? With this billet I have to present reports to my SSgt on the shop’s productivity and our resources. In my shop the chain of command is supposedly the be all and the end all and yet I have to speak directly with my SSgt about work on a regular basis. That’s okay! I should be able to talk to him without having to go through a Cpl or Sgt, right? Well, no. A PFC (pretty much my only friend in the unit) had some paperwork on him that needed to be turned in. Well, before he could do that all of us got pulled into a meeting called by the SSgt who demanded to know where his paperwork was. The dutiful PFC offered it directly to him and was then promptly screamed at for ignoring the chain of command while the PFC’s Cpl was in the room. Well, I’m always told to use common sense in my unit so the next day I handed my paperwork for the SSgt to my Cpl (he supervises my billet as I’m knew and still learning it, he’s pcsing soon so I have to learn fast) to hand to my SSgt. I get called an idiot by my SSgt and he demands I give the report straight to him. Hypocrisy. I hate the USMC, I would love to love it, but it has chosen the path of the unredeemable, I will work as hard as I can for my 4 years and then I will leave and never look back. If anyone asks me what the Marine Corps was like I will tell them the truth.

    • ohreally

      And people will call you a pussy if you complain about the constant verbal abuse. Never mind the fact that this shit does NOT help win wars or kill people, but if you even ask why this daily abuse and nonsense exists you will be accused of being weak and an “individual”, because that is a terrible thing to be in America after all. Fuck the Marine Corpse and its bullshit.

    • Donny Korman

      The goal is to degrade the moral of a Marine. He cannot always believe he is right and superior. You sound so dumb complaining about being yelled at and degraded. It’s what you signed up for. The Marines puts you through many physical and mental tests. And their job is to keep you on your toes not praise you and give you an A+ for effort. They’re supposed to belittle you. And Hypocrisy? That’s such a minor reason to ‘hate’ anything. And it has chosen the path of the unredeemable? That’s not even a word. Talk about illiterate. Try nonredeemable. And I’m sure if anyone asked you about the Marine Corps you will not tell them the truth because you’re already influenced by it’s so called ‘hypocrisy’. And about how its ‘unredeemable’. Again just another biased view about something so minor and insignificant.

      • I didn’t sign up for this crap

        I’m sorry if you don’t understand people with principles, but I happen to be one. When I put my all into an organization, I expect those that represent and lead it to hold themselves accountable to the same standard that they hold their subordinates. Hypocrisy is a huge determining factor on whether I like someone or some organization. Also: “The goal is to degrade the moral of a Marine.” The word you’re looking for is not moral, but morale. Morals are what one believes to be right and wrong. Morale is their outlook on life given a set of circumstances. In boot camp morale is broken down for 12 weeks and then brought back up on the 13th week. I’m not talking about boot camp though. I’m speaking about my actual job in the USMC. You call me dumb for bringing up an issue that is commonplace practice throughout the corps; you call me illiterate because you didn’t recognize the word I was using and then proceeded to use the wrong word yourself in your argument; you defend an organization you clearly know nothing about; you question my principles, which the Marine Corps ground into me. Donny Korman, you are a joke of a man, or boy as I should say, because no man would state such utter ridiculousness as you have. Biased!?! You accuse the people on this site of being biased? You blindly defend an organization you haven’t even worked for! Come back to me with the definition of bias and we’ll see just how illiterate I am compared to you.

        • Got my brain back when I EAS’d

          Hey man, I’m sure Youve heard the saying “all the best marines get out” this is true in my opinion. While I don’t miss the organization one bit, I do miss the bond I had with my boys. I’ve been out 6 years now and it’s been hard to recreate the level of loyalty, dependability, and reliance you have on one another. The rest of the world cannot *fully* relate to that. My advice is try to keep in touch with as many of them because all my buds say the same thing: they miss the brotherhood. That and shooting full autos (0331)

      • Bubbafett

        No stupid. Were you even an NCO? Tell me, why would you tell someone to report straight to you, then fucking yell at him later for not seeking a senior below you? This is not keeping on your toes. It’s not combat training, it FUCKING WORKING IN THE SHOP OR OFFICE. This ain’t SERE level 3 training either. Does that make fucking sense? I was a Sgt. I had some Lcpl report to me because his Cpl is a moron.

      • Chris

        Donny Korman, I honestly thought you were being sarcastic in your response by bouncing back and forth with these contradictions, but realize you’re serious, and believe yourself to be totally righteous in your stance.

  • Ian lamberty

    I was thanking about joining the marines until my friend told me to look at this site I know the choice is all mine but I’d love input

    • guest

      Do an extensive reading of the web site to see what issues and problems Marines have had to deal with- read the worst and ask yourself: Is that really what I want to go through, or would I be better off exploring other options?
      You’ll get no shortage of people here telling you enlisting is not a good idea. I’d reinforce that by saying it doesn’t matter if you have been seduced by its propaganda and “love” or hate the USMC ( or Military)- the fact is the USMC is facing years of fiscal austerity and cutbacks which will impact the quality of your training; I can see far less training exercises, less school slots, slower promotions and more reductions of personnel to pay for new technology.
      Take a step back from yourself and ask what you hope to gain by enlisting, and could you seek the same result in another (better) organisation?
      If you really are stupid and end up signing an enlistment contract, you were warned and will have nobody else to blame but yourself.

  • Donny Korman

    This is the most biased site I have ever come across. What kind of bullshit is being thrown around here. The Marines are always depicted as illiterate jar-heads when yet they’re our first line of defense and by far the most dependent.

    • madmike1968

      This site is the antidote to and it’s no more biased than that. And Marines are not nearly as dependable as special forces or real elite units. Plus this country’s nuclear forces are what really keeps this country safe.

      • Donny Korman

        “Marines are not nearly as dependable as special forces or real elite units.” By far the dumbest statement I’ve heard all day. The USMC is a special/elite force. United States Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command is a component command of the United States Special Operations Command. Its core capabilities are direct action, special reconnaissance and foreign internal defense. And if anything a country’s nuclear forces serves a threat to it’s own safety.

        • madmike1968

          Any unit that takes losers with a I.Q. on the south side of 100 is not elite. I served with Marines I wouldn’t hire to flip burgers. And nuclear forces are what guarantees that no nation will ever try to conquer this country. Expeditionary units like the Marines tempt this country into military adventurism. Think before you type.

        • Older Marine Vet

          Seems like you want to promote the age old ‘whose d**k is bigger contest’.
          If you had bothered to read into and follow this website its main contributors are those who I am sure were good Marines who worked hard, then got fed up with some of the absurd regulations, institutional inefficiencies and mismanagement that is inherent in an organization which refuses to evolve when faced with honest criticism.
          I don’t doubt there are good Marines serving on active duty right now- they are the ones probably aggressively applying for VEERP packages and doing one enlistment contract then getting out.
          I hope that some of my contributions have been read by young people and given them second thoughts about enlisting in the Marine Corps, which is going to do nothing but use and abuse them, chew them up then spit them out at its convenience.
          If you don’t like the truth, go to a Leatherneck forum instead!

        • Don’t support dumb laws

          There are different Marines, some are more elite than others. Force Recon and MARSOC operators are in special operations. Other Marines are not. Your statement is like saying the entire Army is an elite force because they have Rangers, SF and CAG. That’s a dumb statement.
          Perhaps you weren’t a Marine and an NCO. I was and I have to deal with morons that got pushed through boot camp during the War of Terror. At least when MadMike served, they weeded ppl out. Not these days. And if you get recycled, you’ll graduate anyways.
          The NCOs are expected to turn morons into competent Marines. If not, you will get an ear full from your SNCO or officers. ‘Why can’t you fix him or her?’ Bitch, I’d fire him/her if I can.
          The term ‘All Marines are elite’ is nothing but a politically correct jargon. That’s the truth.

        • Brenda

          At least you didn’t use such filthy language when you said that. People who use filthy language make themselves sound uneducated.

        • eat the apple…

          Your comment makes me want to put a fucking cigarette out with my eyeball. The good old gun club is by definition, NOT an elite force. An elite force has a selection program, and guess what? WE DONT. Bitch-made higher ups force everyone through bootcamp. I graduated with a kid who weighed 120 lbs. and could do one (1!!!) pull-up. Fuck every delusionary asshole who still thinks their “title” is “earned, never given.”

    • S.

      I think we are the opposite of bias. Although many of us have different opinions, the core value of this website to be as honest as possible. We talk about both the good things and the bad things here. The name was just a marketing ploy created by yours truly.

    • ohreally

      Bias does not mean the negation of the truth. If I have an anti-nazi bias does that make me wrong in my assessments of national socialism? Hell,no. Now the same applies to the second standing army that is the Maween Corpse.

      • Donny Korman

        That statement in itself is biased you stupid fucking moron. Do you know what biased means? You sound mentally retarded. You’re saying that your view is the truth. Which is biased. And the second part of that I dont think you know what the fuck you’re even talking about.

        • S.

          I wish I could argue as well as you. Everyone take note of Mr. Korman, we should all strive to be able to speak to others as gracefully.

  • Timmy Edward

    Excellent list
    I would add a no kidding strength and conditioning program should be added and poolees shouldn’t be lied to about the physical demands. My recruiter actually told me I didn’t need to do any physical preparation even though I had never played competitive sports. That was lie. I would have been in everyone’s best interest to tell me to wait 6 months or even a year and get stronger and in better shape. Also, having no guidance I did get stronger but not optimally. This is something I am now learning after being out almost 10 years.
    I was in for a total of 5 and received an honorable discharge as a Sgt…so if you want to call me out you also have to call out my accomplishments which would then just make you look dumb.

    • Bubbafett

      Swimming also. The swim instructors at boot camp were some of the biggest dicks to people that couldn’t swim well.

    • broman

      And one’s reading, writing, and arithmetic standards before joining, if they absolutely have to join and there is no room for “no” as a response. That way they can at least get themselves into a better job that has somewhat of an ability to transition into the “civilian life”.

  • Eye See Everything

    I came here ready to talk shit but everything you say is true so I digress…

    • S.


  • diane

    My ex boyfriend who is a marine and an snco owes me $3600 for car parts and an investment in a car we were going to eventually flip and make a profit. He is telling me he will only pay 700 but will be a nice guy and pay 1600. Can I take him to court or do I have to accept his offer? I have receipts to prove what he owes. His reason for only wanting to pay the 1600 is that he is charging me for things he says are his that I took like a hat some meat in the freezer changing locks at several other petty things. He has sent several harassing emails.

    • S.

      You can take anyone to court.

  • Ana Nimous

    1. What’s this? 290+ PFT score? 2 lbs overweight? Loose-ass tape job? We’ll assign you to BCP for that because you obviously aren’t adhering to Marine Corps standards.
    2. The ridiculous notion that in order to be seen as a lean, mean, tough Marine, you have to ignore all your problems until they’re serious enough they can’t be ignored. E.g. Shoulder injuries which are meddlesome at first and become debilitating later.
    3. The idea that successful anti-sexual assault training basically consists of saying, “Don’t rape people.”

    4. The idea that you’ll forget sometime within the year that raping people is wrong, so you need to be reminded about it.

    • For Bleep Sake

      Reply to 4: All branches of the military have a sexual assault problem. Maybe these idiots need to be reminded constantly about it.

  • FTC1992

    Not to be sexist. But i hate HATE hate that females arent required to do pullups. Yeah i know theres all that stuff about different body types but come on all you need to do is 3 pullups to be a woman marine n ill keep calling them woman marines until their held to same standards as men marines. Franky i hate the corpse n its stupid core values they drill into you at boot. Does that matter in the fleet? Nope it doesnt. Fuck the corpse they kept me on a leash for several years of my life. Honestly they have a great history but are too full of themselves to admit that the army was with them all the way. What i hate more than marines are poolie marines. They “know” everything about the military

    • TerminalCpl(who got Sgt)

      I agree with this, I laughed as I was walking around my BN building and saw a sign that said “Woman’s Equality Day” made me wonder if that meant on this day they would have to run as fast as us, do as many pullups and ammo can lifts as us.
      Haven’t dealt with poolies but I was playing Arma3 and this group of people I got invited to play with were emulating a MEU, I get the game is supposed to be realistic but one of these kids (yes actually a kid) was giving some prebattle safety brief.
      I quit right there, when they asked if I disconnected I told them I was an actual Marine and I had to deal with this nonsense on a day to day basis and hate it.
      They proceeded to say all the normal slander of things that motards do.

      • For Bleep Sake

        I laugh at your ignorance. You confuse human rights equality with physical strength equality. You do know that women don’t have upper body strength equal to men, right? You do know that when men take hormones to change their sex to female they lose their upper body strength, right? Now you do.

    • Joe B

      You have a very legitimate concern. I’m all for giving women a fair opportunity, but there are some places it works and others it doesn’t.
      This whole females in the military/ infantry issue has become so politicized that common sense went out the door years ago, and the Commandant would never force a higher standard onto the female ranks because he would end up losing too many women who couldn’t meet it. Wouldn’t look good for all the idiots in Congress, who champion stupid ideas for the sake of politics!
      Understand your point about Core Values. they are honorable words, but no need to go over them 20 times a year!
      PS When the Nazis invaded Russia in WW2, the Russians just simply put women into front line combat and support roles. No stupid bullshit endless debates- they just conscripted them and sent them to the front line. If America ever got involved in another devastating war like that, American women would wake up and realize they aren’t so special!

  • Laughter Man

    Sounds like communism to me! HAW HAW!

  • Older Marine Vet

    I contribute to this web site periodically, and this long post is going to address what is not so much a problem with the Marine Corps, but with the military/ government/ defense contractor INCESTUOUS relationships that have ended up RAPING THE US TAXPAYER for decades now!

    Why is it not surprising that retired Commandant General Amos is not taking full advantage of this upper echelon gravy train?

    Amos joins board of directors for defense contractor

    This is hardly a new phenomenon. The ‘revolving door’ has been ongoing for decades now, and it has brought you all the fraud, waste and abuse that is inherent in the Department of Defense. The ‘revolving door’ has been a catalyst to the military’s overspending for the benefit of select private companies (General Dynamics, Northrup Grumman, Raytheon, Boeing to name the top few- now add the LORD Corporation to this list) and you can take your pick on what issue after another has contributed to our now ( out of control) defense spending!:

    In the 80’s, the Navy had no problem paying markups for the purchase of a hammer, so a $7 basic tool can end up costing $436 each!!

    And lets list some of the other programs that encourage waste and overspending: the Army LHX, the Navy’s Seawolf Class Submarines, the Navy’s A-12 stealth attack plane, the F22, and last but not least, Amos’ own little favorite pet THE F35!

    Having an “Aviator Commandant” during a time when your introducing a hyper expensive weapons system that has questionable value and diminishing returns is quite beneficial for Lockheed Martin- a good guy to have in your back pocket!

    To those critical of the military this issue isn’t new. To a cynic like myself, who view todays politicians as nothing but businessmen who manipulate their positions to enhance their business interests ( with public good and organizational responsibility being an afterthought), there’s no reason to view top ranking Generals as being any different.
    I can only now conjecture what Amos will actually DO now he has a seat on the board of directors at the LORD Corporation. He will definitely be using his networks and connections to oversee existing LORD military contracts, or convince the USMC to sign with LORD
    with questionable regard to the principles of competitive pricing, fair competition or conflict of interest! Its not uncommon for such retired Generals to just sit on a Board meeting 10 times a year, play golf with their high placed buddies to cultivate “business relationships”- all while earning at least 100,000k a year on top of his retirement package!
    Why do I bring this issue to the table?. I had experience working as a Fiscal Officer for a Marine Aircraft Group at Miramar. I have experienced the procurement/ budget/ military accounting system at a mid level, and let me say that its one hell of an eye opener about the confused, chaotic and inconsistent nature of how the USMC manages its financial allocations, plus its misplaced priorities in regard to financial responsibility.
    Or to put it another way so that all you former Lcpls to Sgts can relate if you’ve ever been tormented about lost field gear that you’ve had to pay a far higher price to replace, lets just say that if you represented a female/minority owned business that has a secure government no bid contract to provide equivalent gear ( my favorite was Aviator Gas Masks) you could charge the USMC at least double the amount of the manufactured cost of the item, then 1 1/2 times the cost of replacement value, never minding the fact that the replacement you get is an out of date model! The Corps has no problem paying overinflated prices for such stock, but will be merciless on a PFC if he dares loses 782 gear out in the field!! ( double standard cough cough).
    To start concluding my strong opinion, I’ll echo a proposed solution that David Hackworth put forward when I listened to one of his lectures in the late 1990’s
    ‘enact a law that bars any senior retired General from working for a defense related industry connected to his/her former branch for say 7 to 10 years’
    Would that completely solve a problem that has contributed to our governments out of control spending? Not likely, but it would send a message that public officials are wise to these profiteering practices and won’t let them spiral out of control.
    But then again- common sense, honesty and financial responsibility in the US Government are words that could never be used in the same sentence!
    PS Not that I consider myself any special, nor my thoughts and opinions as any great pieces of work by any means, but could I respectfully request that ‘Older Marine Vet’ comments be grouped into a certain section on this web site? I know how this request may sound, but my line of reasoning is that in ‘Anomyous discussion’ for example, issues come, get debated and discussed, then tend to go down the list , then months later reappear, and the bottom line is that the same arguments get repeated over and over. I’m happy to add insight ( and happy to respect wishes not to) but don’t feel like repeating the same arguments over and over.
    I don’t know if what I am asking for is doable, and will maintain a sense of humility that my contributions are not THAT SPECIAL.
    Thank you for the online service you provide.

    • Knob_Gaudy

      They have tried to hook you up with an account so you can write these up in posts yourself. Thats what I did with my series on El CId.

  • marines suck

    You are basically a slave in the marines, obey do as you are told and it’s stupid. These higher ups take advantage of their power and humiliate people and you can’t even defend yourself. The corps is a joke. All an image but everyone knows it sucks

  • John

    What I’m a little baffled by is the arrogance part. I love pride if pride means a positive outlook and being content. I kind of like it, for instance, when a women says she’s the happiest women in the world when she talks about her husband, or when a guy says he wouldn’t change anything about his girl and smiles and hugs her. All sweet stuff, but we know it isn’t true, but it’s nice to say and should be said. Or, to be more relevant to the Marines, how most Marines would not trade their experiences and title for anything (except maybe a good chunk for the title of Navy SEAL). That kind of pride is really attractive and I think its nice to see.

    The kind of pride I see much more often is delusional arrogance, delusional arrogance seams to be more prevalent than just positive outlook and content. And this degree of delusion and arrogance seeps into almost everything about the organization. Makes the organization harder to adopt and improve, or for the talent (and it exists) to stay and for the crap to leave.

    Firstly this idea that we’re the “tip of the spear” defending America. That America is lucky to have us. That the Army is lucky we’re around. Not saying this stuff as jokes poking fun at the idea; like how two buddies (straight or gay) call each other faggots as signs of endearment. But saying this stuff because one actually believes it, individually and collectively as an organization. The “tip of the spear,” and “elite” fighting force stuff. Really?

    “Tip of the spear” part is really annoying. I think the Marines are (mostly) great for what they are, and a lot of Marines are great guys and great warriors but let’s be for real we’re not trading our nuclear ICBMs and nuke subs for the USMC, if we had to theoretically drop one of the two it’d be us dropping the Marines over our nuclear arsenal. We’re not trading our NSA program for the USMC, if we had to theoretically drop one of the two it’d be us dropping the Marines over the NSA. The Marines aren’t even in the top five of the our national spear tip. Which I’d list as – 1) WMD deterrent (nuclear, chemical etc). 2) Air and sea power protecting the global free market. 3) NSA/CIA etc. 4) Special Operators 5) Straight up geography + 2nd Amendment (physically almost impossible to invade, and then after invading occupy). All five things I wouldn’t trade and drop over the Marines if forced to drop one over the other.

    Which number 4) Special Operators gets to my second point of “elite.” The Marines are not Special Operations, it as an organization cannot wiggle it’s way into number ‘4) Special Operators. Marines have Special Operations Marines, those guys are Special Operations. The Marines in general are not. The Navy cannot say they’re Navy SEALS quality of eliteness because the SEALS are from within the Navy. But only Marines do this. Only Marines grunts think they’re on par with Green Berets and Navy SEALS and 75th Rangers. You’re not.

    In finishing really. The Marines are mostly great. That is, that there are a lot of great Marines and the country is better off with them than without them. Makes a lot of lost boys into men. Keeps a lot of people out of jail by channeling that energy into killing people who mostly need to be killed versus those who mostly shouldn’t be killed. Great way to challenge yourself. But it isn’t an elite organization tantamount to Special Forces and it isn’t the tip of the spear defending America. And, no, Army is not lucky to have them. And yes. The organization needs to be improved. A lot of the BS needs to be changed. The PT score and how long you can wing it in the Corps shouldn’t be the litmus for promotion. The Corps (like most of the military) has to recognize it’s a government program with all the inefficiencies and bureaucratic BS that that entails. It needs to adopt to keep relevant and efficient, and to keep the good Marines and get rid of the shitty ones.

  • broman

    I have already posted this on the main page of this site but I think it’s worth posting here specifically: The number of UA’s (unauthorized absence) you’ll experience seeing while in service. If this were the “elite” of the U.S. military then this is a joke because of it. Whether this were boot camp or unit related, doesn’t matter because for this to cause someone to just get up and find no other way than to just bail from their current location then this organization really sucks.

    That’s pretty much a no-brainer.

  • I am a Guest

    *Reducing deployment pay and benefits for enlisted so they can double and triple down on deployment pay for officers.
    * paying minimal Comrat allowances to enlisted ranks and then MASSIVELY increasing the benefit for officers because they can’t afford to feed their kids apparently.
    * Ignoring the fact that the founding Fathers specifically wrote in the Constitution that ONLY STATE GOVORNORS have the Power to Commission Military Officers and while the president can “appoint” officers every commission to the officer ranks in the military ranks ever signed by a president is actually as useless as the paper it’s written on.
    * Having people swear an oath on the Constitution but not even having a copy on base.
    * thinking Officers have the right to take away anyone’s Constitutional Rights or legislate LAW when they clearly don’t.
    * Operating under Jim Crow where Senior Officers get to live in Free Mansions and enlisted are pushed out by the sewage treatment plant in slave quarters. Also having “special” stickers for their vehicles to ensure enlisted personell are able to receive NJP because they didn’t pay proper respect to the sticker and salute it, especially when some colonels whore is driving.
    *only turning on the heat in the winter in the enlisted barracks when necessary to keep pipes from freezing (to save money).
    * lots more.

    • StillintheFight

      Those are all incredible points…however, I’m a “show me, don’t tell me” kind of guy… Can you please point me toward some resources? I’m not disagreeing with you in spirit, just looking to validate a couple of your points. I think most of these are DOD rants, not USMC rants…but I see what you’re getting at anecdotally with a couple of them (i.e. vehicle stickers), but I’ve just never heard of someone receiving NJP for not saluting. I’ve also heard that contractors have special decals, also, as well as DOD civilians and enlisted personnel – is that true? Just trying to help get to the bottom of this…thanks.

    • Rocky

      Are you sure about the President not being able to commission officers? Article 2, Clause 6 states “and shall Commission all Officers of the United States.” when discussing the President’s duties.

    • Older Marine Vet

      As a former ‘mustang’ LT, this was obvious written by a disgruntled enlisted guy who has an axe to grind about the enlisted/ Officer rank structure, plus pay and benefit scales.
      I don’t deny that Officers get paid more and receive better benefits than junior enlisted, but obviously I am Guest has not gone through the harder and tougher training to pin on LT’s bars- in the USMC there is a vigorous weed out process of those who can’t hack the responsibility- plus the fact that you bear the burden of command, and at times that can become quite a daunting task!!!
      -Unless DoD pay policies have radically changed in the last five years, I’d like to see him PROVE items 1 and 2!!
      -would he be happier if the State governors determined how many Officers a Federal branch can have? Say if California dictated that all it contribution of Officers be female, minorities or Trans gender? would that make the USMC better for him?
      – go to a Base Library or get onto the Internet and you’ll find a copy of the Constitution- its not that hard to find!!
      As a LT did I have the power to take away anyone’s Constitutional Rights? I am subject to the UCMJ like anybody else, but I do have a responsibility for “good order and discipline”, and to ensure that the units I am in charge of can accomplish their primary mission ABOVE ALL ELSE!!
      Well, as a single LT I wasn’t entitled to a Free Mansion, and there are always long waiting lists for base housing!! Are Officers quarters better? yes they are, but not even close to what a well paid civilian could live in!
      I was given an DoD sticker with an Officer designation because I worked damn hard to earn it, but I had better things to do with my time than correct enlisted who didn’t salute if I drove by them. This is the first I’ve ever read of someone getting an NJP for a superfluous issue like this! Would I “correct” a belligerent junior enlisted who didn’t salute in full walking view of me? Hell Yes I would!!
      If I am Guest thinks that being a LT, Captain or higher rank is an automatic gravy train without risk, pitfalls, unique expenses, and other hardships, then this guy needs to better educate himself!!
      I don’t deny that enlisted/Officer gap is becoming a reflection of the growing ‘haves’ and ‘have not’ gap that is more prevalent in America today, but that’s the only small point I will concede on this issue. Its not nearly half as bad in the military than it is in say a city like New York!!
      Ohh, and as a LT I’ve lived in government barracks with no hot water either.

      • FoxtrotTangoNovember

        I was in the Navy, where the enlisted/officer gap is the worst of any branch of the service. I understand the need for some separation, but the Navy takes it way too far. The Marine Corps isn’t much better, as far as that goes. I’ll say this: officers are under tremendous pressure from the get-go (cadet training) and it never lets up. The burden of command is harsh and unforgiving. It’s way more political and career-oriented than enlisted life. Junior enlisted can get away with a dumb mistake, serve their punishment and move on, but you don’t get any second chances as an officer. One fuck-up and your career is basically finished. You can stay in, but you won’t get promoted, and you’ll usually get assigned to shit details. It’s really not as skate as it looks from the enlisted side.

        • Older Marine Vet

          Based on my own enlisted/Officer experience, i’d say that the CORPS IS NOT WORTH HAVING ANY TYPE OF LOYALTY TO!

          As a LT I was disgusted by the fact that HQMC tried to charge me for being involved in an incident which the civilian authorities and my own command didn’t see any wrongdoing. My own Colonel even called a JAG at HQMC to express his disgust at them attempting to put me up on charges, which it took them six months to drop BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T BE JUSTIFIED!!

          By that time I just decided to resign my commission and get out, because why stay in and do multiple deployments to Iraq then years down the road be denied a promotion based on a stupid trivial incident?

          I worked hard to become an Officer, but I wasn’t brainwashed enough to be blindly loyal to the Corps. And in the officer ranks, you do meet plenty of assholes with serious sticks up their backsides.

          Some get so caught up in the air of their own arrogance its pathetic! But i can say for myself that being prior enlisted I wasn’t perfect, but a lot more grounded in reality!

        • eat the apple

          What are you talking about? Every branch has the same pay, therefore there is no bigger gap between officer pay and enlisted pay than any other branch. Navy…psssshhh please keep complaining… you have so much more freedom than your poor, stupid brother USMC. Officers should get paid more..they’re smarter. Sorry, but facts are facts. How hard is it to graduate a 4 year institution and then sit on your ass making more money than you should whilst you pay off your loans. boohoo…enlisted is the stupidest contract a present-day human being could sign.

          • J.T.

            Officers are not smarter than enlisted, well not all of them. There are smart and stupid officers and enlisted alike. Just because there is disparity between the ranks that has nothing to do with intelligence. That statement is disrepectful to enlisted personnel. What about mustangs and enlisted who get commissions after completing their degrees and then going through OCS. One of my super intelligent company XO’s drove my platoon at night for several hours through a minefield during Desert Storm looking for Iraqi crypto gear. Is that intelligence? Plus the XO couldn’t read a map very well. The comment about officers being super intelligent is a major slight towards enlisted personnel. I don’t know who thinks this is the truth but most Marine and Army infantry people I have had the honor and pleasure to serve with are some of the smartest and dedicated service members I have ever served with. So please don’t slight them, as they are the best and brightest America has ever fielded in combat. I’m very offended by this post!

          • Older Marine Vet

            Well, having been on both sides I’ve seen a mix- I’ve seen very book smart Officers who would have major problems trying to lead a practical exercise like a company assault. I’ve seen smart, and stupid enlisted, but the fact is that if they lack an education credential unfortunately that is what our society judges to be more worthwhile.

            I’d say Officers in the Air Wing, especially pilots have an incredibly academically demanding job which an average SNCO would not be able to do- they are deserving of high praise.

      • J.T.

        I’m a retired Gunnery Sergeant and would like to comment on the pay differences and quality of life between officers and enlisted. I was always told that officers made more money to offset the cost of their college education. I call bullshit on that because most senior Staff NCO’s have bachelors degrees now themselves but officers make more money. How is it that a Captain with 4 to 6 years make more than a Sergeant Major or Master Guns with 20 years time in service. I don’t hate the Marine Corps, I actually loved it when I was on active duty, but I constantly see enlisted personnel screwed over while officers get awards for the work their enlisted people do. An enlisted man can hardly get a Navy Achievment medal for doing something outstanding but an officer can easily get an award due to the hard work of their subordinates. Somehow the whole system is very unfair and officers reap the awards getting preferential treatment on the shoulders of enlisted men, most who have more leadership skills in their pinkies than most officers have in their entire bodies. Don’t get me wrong there are good and bad officers and enlisted personnel but officers are well taken care of while enlisted men with outstanding combat and garrison records are forced out due to crap like tattoo policies even though tattoos are a Naval tradition going back hundreds of years. But of course officers make no mistakes like Army Generals Patreus and Shinseki. Both were fired for their transgressions of adultery and the inability to to keep Veterans safe from the beauracracy known as the VA respectively. If they would have had even a halfway decent NCO helping them out they would have probably not have made stupid decisions and would still have their 6 figure annual salaries. The USMC needs to change their motto of Semper Fidelis to Semper Fi sometimes for officers.

        • Older Marine Vet

          I post regularly on this web site,and it doesn’t surprise me that I would draw flack from the enlisted/Officer animosity that I saw so much of on active duty.

          I only did four years enlisted for a reason- if you chose to remain enlisted your entire USMC career and climb the enlisted rank structure, that was your choice. I figure anybody who re enlists after four years knows fully what they are committing to, and should be prepared to deal with the disparity.

          College costs have risen exponentially in the last twenty years, but there are other factors involved in the higher levels of responsibility that Officers shoulder. If a female Officer has a degree in say Gender Studies, vs an Officer who had a more expensive Mechanical Engineering Degree, there obviously is a disparity there that the pay structure only solves by making a common base salary based on rank!

          To the senior Staff NCO who gets a bachelors degree ( more power to them) are you asking me to wave a magic wand and make the DoD change its pay structure to reward SSgts or above who have a bachelors? I actually went to OCS with a ‘prior’ GySgt, who was raking in good money with his prior service, but then again had a large family to support. And these senior SNCO’s do have the option of getting out and using their education to find a higher paying job!

          And have you considered the fact that there are plenty of ways that ( taking an example I saw) a Colonel in the Air Wing could be relieved, or found financially liable because he is forced to sign for all his units T/O equipment? ( which could amount to at least 1/4 of his yearly salary at a minimum?)

          Another thing I saw was that Officer Candidates who had guaranteed Law contracts get accelerated promotions to Captain at TBS, mainly because the USMC had to be somewhat competitive with what law firms were offering. So, if you resent the fact that pay is a function of market forces to attract qualified people, then you’ll need to deal with that reality in civilian life. I’ll make on observation that as a former enlisted Marine, the Law Officers who got the Captain rank would probably get killed if they were forced to lead a platoon in combat – perhaps more by their own Marines!

          Are Officers self serving? Of course they can be, just like GySgts or 1stSgts. I can only speak for myself, but since I was never a good politician ( former grunt btw) the snakes and ladders game of career advancement in the Officer ranks was more arduous. I’ll add that one memory of my time was going through a frustrating bureaucratic nightmare to ensure one of my deserving Sgts got her NAM, and I never wrote myself up for awards!

          So, you’ll obviously are bitter, and have a chip on your should because you saw self serving behavior by senior ranking Officers, and as a former 1st LT I can say I saw exactly the same thing, which is why I have been active on a web site like this. I wasn’t popular with my my other LTs, Captains and Majors because I wasn’t as PC as they wanted me to be.

          And lastly, I’ll say this. From a ‘mustang’ perspective, there is nothing more irritating than having to dealing with some overly salty GySgt or 1stSgt , who have an inflated view of themselves and think they’ve seen everything and won’t even consider doing something differently.- in other words- too old and set in their ways!! Ohh, and the 1st Sgt who likes to sleep at his desk in the afternoon, is someone I have a hard time having much respect for!

          So it cuts both ways Mister, and quite honestly I’m getting tired of of contributing here with a LT perspective, then reading this type of animosity. Of course theirs a two tiered system- so what the fuck do you want me to do about it?

        • DemotivateMe

          The usmc works in the same sense as any large corporation does. For an enlisted is the equivalent to general employees. There’s only so far an enlisted can go, and a Sgtmaj would be equivalent to let’s say a Walmart store manager. I think that view is bullshit but it’s the way the corps runs, and an officer would be a corporate fatcat. Just as in the private sector brains counts more than brawn. But with that said, I agree with you, a Sgtmaj should make more money than a captain especially considering their job requires brain as well as brawn.

        • StillintheFight

          Gunny, this is a topic I generally try to avoid discussing, because once one posts the general idea that “pay and benefits are unfair and bias toward officers,” any type of response feels like an accusation that you’re wrong…i.e. Older Marine Vet’s post below, where he’s clearly trying to make his point without hurting your feelings. But, I recognize that you’re venting and that is exactly what this website provides.
          A couple of thoughts, since your comment spans several perceived inequities, not just pay and quality of life…
          -Officers don’t make more money to offset the cost of college education. About 40% (I’m rounding) of all officer accessions join via full-ride programs already (USNA, NROTC, MECEP), so that wouldn’t make sense.
          -Captains with 4-6 years make $500 less per month than a SgtMaj with 20. A couple examples – all based on the numbers straight out of the pay chart: A company commander (O-3 >6) makes 5469, the first sergeant (E-8 >16) makes 4559, the company gunny (E-7 >14) makes 4125, and the company XO (O-2 >3) makes 4434. That all seems about right… The battalion CO (O-5 >16) makes 8054 and the battalion SgtMaj (E-9 >20) makes 5730 (more than the company commander). That’s where you see the most significant split – between the field grade ranks and the senior SNCO ranks…but, authority and accountability of a commander outweighs that of a senior enlisted advisor.
          -Awards. Not fair, no matter the rank. I recognize the bad experiences you had and witnessed…I think we all have. I’ve seen O/E award discrepancies, SNCO/NCO discrepancies, field grade/company grade discrepancies, and unit/unit discrepancies. It’ll never be fair…but I won’t go so far as to agree with officers “can easily get an award due to the hard work of their subordinates.” That’s the personality of a specific unit… and in any unit, if that’s the perception, no award should be presented. The greatest disparity I saw was staff awards vs. companies…including enlisted Marines on the staff.
          -I don’t know of any Marines, of any rank, being forced out due to tattoo policies unless they knowingly violated the policy while on active duty…I’m happy to be told I’m wrong here…just don’t know of anyone that faced those circumstances.
          -Officers are relieved all the time, and honestly, if you look at his track record for the past 15 years, Shinseki was the right guy to fix the VA. He already retired prematurely for speaking against the Iraq war in 2002-3. Unfortunately, a major scandal broke under his watch and – highlighting the same responsibility officers bear on active duty – the commander (director) was fired as a result. Senior enlisted are advisors to officers, and officers are commanders/decision makers. That’s the structure in which we live. The VA “SgtMaj” wouldn’t have been fired, but the director sure was. The best NCOs could never protect some officers from themselves…
          I think there’s validity to a lot of what you mention, because that is the perspective of many ranks…and many young Lts without prior service start off with a misplaced sense of entitlement… They need strong SSgts and Gunnies to square them away early and help them understand the hardships of the junior Marines. I will say, however, that the Marine Corps is probably better than the other services in the officer-enlisted gap…the Navy is probably the worst, with a little too much “tradition” in that arena.

  • Jon Owens

    The fact that I’m stressing out more about someone stealing my bravos shirt than I was on the flight ramp about to go into Yemen.

  • Jon Owens

    The fact that someone stole my fucking bravos shirt…

  • Fucktheusmc

    I have been on two limited duties and they put me back to training with barely any ability to move my arm

    • sgtballz

      This shit right here. 3 compacted disks.. go to chiropractor pops back.. pulls me off light duty to do what.. Run a PFT. Deploy to Iraq with this condition do my 5 month initial push return to a female Lt. Commander yellin at me for malingering.

  • kathleen

    ooookay so I’ve been dating this guy for over four months now. BEFORE I START MY STORY. im not looking for advice. just advicing you.

    so I honestly love being with him. he makes me feel hot and special and wanted and honestly his smile lights up my life. my heart still skips a beat whenever I see him. I still get butterflies when he touches me.

    I love him. and he loves me.

    recently he’s been starting to be distant. and it’s fine; I let him have his space. until last month he started talking about wanting to break up.

    I was very upset. I called my friends and I was crying and all that jazz.

    I went to visit one of my friends, who happens to live near the guy. on my way to her house, I ran into my boyfriend. we sat down and talked for a while. he doesn’t know what he wants. I cried. he said that he wants a break because he feels so much pressure to be good at a relationship. he also wonders if sometimes that he might also be happier single. but then he says hes with me and he laughs and he’s happy and he doesn’t know.

    so towards the end of the conversation I suggested that if a relationship is like a house, and a lightbulb burns out, we don’t burn the house down. we fix the light bulb.

    (prior to this conversation he only saw 2 options- ending it or staying together) he chose ending it, i talked to my friend about it and he gave me a contact email for me to ask for help and i did, in contacted the love doctor and he told me what to do and when i did it, he prayed for me and my biyfriend came back begging me that he was with another woman who did a spell on him that made him leave me annd i should take him back. i had to choice, i had to take him. all thanks to The love doctor who helped me. his email is if you have any problem in your marriage or relationship please do well to contact him he is the best.

  • Rasheed Wallace

    I cannot tell you if you should join or not, but you should not be afraid of the racism or sexism! As a female hispanic Marine Officer you will not be held to the same standards as male Marines . The USMC selectively promotes both females and hispanics over better qualified male black and white Marines quite often. So although there is institutional racism and sexism, it works in your benefit, more so than it might in other branches, due to so few female hispanics interested in becoming USMC officers.

  • Rasheed Wallace

    Well, it’s less that than the different behavioral standards male and female Marines are held to. Female Marines may talk back to superiors, question orders, and get away with not being in uniform regs, where as male Marines must uphold high standards at all times or face harsh punishments if they are deficient. This erodes morale.

  • Justin

    I had to sit in a 101 days of summer brief. The Gnny started sweating as he read and stumbled on the slide show. He then called for a motivator to read the slide. I sat and decided to watch him squirm so then he chose me I stood up and read the slide. He asked me to re-read the word “metabolic” as in “metabolic rate” obviously in regards to alcohol tolerance. He was so impressed he asked me if I had read the slide before. I didn’t know what to say I just sat back down. It occurred to me that dumb ass back in grade school that the teacher always wanted to read but all the kids really wished he didn’t because he sounds like he has Down syndrome when he reads. That boy becomes a man and with his insicurrities one day becomes a SNCO.

  • FormerEnlisted

    Wow – what a bunch of whiners! Let’s see: “life’s not fair”, right?

    I enlisted a long time before any of you and we had the same gripes all of you have now, though possibly worse. Open squad bays, low pay, lousy chow, Liberty cards, long deployments, etc., etc.

    The difference between all of you and me is that I understood that there’d be stupid rules, unequal treatment, and sometimes dummies in charge. I also learned who I was and what Marines can do and thanks to some great SNCOs and officers, I survived 17 months in combat in Vietnam. The reality is that Marine Corps leadership and training works and we had everything we needed to fight and survive.

    Was it always fair? Hell no – but so what? Would any one of you want to have missed the chance to be a Marine? I have been to 50 years worth of high school reunions and there nothing so pathetic as those classmates who stayed home and did nothing. I’ve been all over the world and seen things they never will.

    After making sergeant, I got out for a couple of years, graduated from college, got back in as a lieutenant, then had an exciting and challenging career including commanding an artillery battalion.

    If you really feel like the Corps’ treating you badly, there’s always Request Mast – instead of sounding pathetic on a public forum.

    • S.

      What good is requesting mast going to do for people who are out already? There is nothing wrong with people sharing true stories. Why do you want to hide the truth so badly?

      • FormerEnlisted

        The truth is that the Corps will always have problems – it’s a human institution, but it’s far and away the best combat force anywhere and most Marines are the best America has to offer.

        Complaining is fine but why sound like a bunch of squids bitching about 10:00 reveille and no ice cream?

        By the way, when I was a CO, I always admired a Marine with the balls to Request Mast to see me.

        • private_givenofucks

          “The best combat force anywhere” haha come on man we all know there are better fighting forces out there.

          • FormerEnlisted

            I guess I’ll have to assume that you weren’t in combat. If you had been, you’d have known the difference.

            Like I said earlier, I spent about 17 months in combat in Vietnam. We were competent, deadly and the enemy did everything they could to avoid us in the field.

            Today we see the special operators getting all the attention but the truth is that only the Marine Corps has the structure and the doctrine to get quickly inland and take on enemy forces in sustained combat.

            Most of the complaints on this site are the “poor me” variety and pretty shameful. They should be looking for ways to fix things rather than sound like whiners.

          • oldr

            “Most of the complaints on this site are the “poor me” variety and pretty
            shameful. They should be looking for ways to fix things rather than
            sound like whiners.”

            Then you obviously have not bothered to read all the comments on this site in their entirety!! Which one of us has complained about 1000 reveille and ice cream? Quit being so stupid!

            I was in during the 90’s, and saw all the older Vietnam vets hang around base ( and try to harass junior Marines btw). All the old bastards like to say how everything was tougher in the old days. SO WHAT IF IT WAS? You all probably hated it back then and would do exactly the same thing as any 18 year on active duty would now. You know as well as I do that you get away with a lot more in the military decades ago than you can now! Did they give much of a shit about DUI’s when the military was so hollow in 1970?

            Is it whining and complaining to point out that the USMC doesn’t hesitate to waste so much money on the F35 billion dollar money pit when it could be far more sensible to divert some of that corporate welfare to improving the enlisted barracks on it bases? Oh- you just casually dismiss that as ‘Life’s not Fair’- with similar issues you are just happy to BEND OVER BACKWARDS AND JUST TAKE IT?

            And i love you citation of liberty cards- you fucking know that there was a time when we didn’t have them, and I think the junior enlisted now ( especially on Okinawa) have a right to complain about something so childishly restrictive.

            The one thing you have failed to recognize is that times have changed since you were young. i honestly think that the Marine Corps old hard ass ways won’t attract intelligent young people to join its ranks in 2015. They know they are far better off getting a decent education first. And they don’t want to be part of a ‘Moron Corps’ that was drafted to fight an unpopular war.

            You chose to stay in longer- fine. I’m glad I got out, and I can travel to other countries with having the USMC baby pacifier in my mouth.

            This site will have done its job when it denies the USMC quality recruits. There will always be stupid and poor people that join.

          • FormerEnlisted

            you don’t mind that I’m happy that you’re out?

          • oldr

            Of course not. If your still active ( I seriously doubt it) then you can’t touch me.

            You are perfectly welcome to go off and fight in the Middle East if you want- you don’t even need to do it with the Marine Corps. Just fly to Turkey and hook up with a rebel faction there. But with all your supposedly tough talking over the Internet, I severely doubt you would have the same balls a British civilian did- you would not do anything without the Marine Corps security blanket.

            Your just nothing but a sycophant.

          • FormerEnlisted

            And you have a problem. You obviously made the grade a while ago enough to make it through boot camp, yet here you are, whimpering like a civilian. You have no idea what I’ve done and still do, you’re just interested in attacking me and looking for pity. If I learned nothing else from my time as a Marine, it was to deal with problems as they came and not sit around crying.
            Was I a great Marine? Probably not. I did my best as I saw it – corrected messes when I found them, hammered criminals when I had them, promoted and rewarded those Marines and Corpsmen who did well. I did not fail to go up the chain of command to defend the younger people I was responsible for and I did what I could to keep the BS level as low as possible but still make sure that they were as capable as humanly possible for combat.
            Being a Marine improves you. It makes you face yourself and face the world as it really is. Did you and I have stupid, incompetent, self-serving leaders? – of course. But the basic material, the Marines themselves were outstanding and worth all the long deployments, hard work, and doing without.
            This site throws the baby out with the bathwater: the Marine Corps and Marines are absolutely essential to the survival of our country and critical around the world. Saving the Marine Corps is extremely important but that isn’t going be helped by a collection of crybabies on the internet.

          • oldr

            Looking for pity? Fuck no! Discouraging smart young people not to join, because their are far better educational and money making opportunities out there? Hell yes!

            I relate my experiences and let the neutral reader decide. I take responsibility for my life choices, but if I could do it all over again I never would have voluntarily signed a USMC enlistment contract. It doesn’t do what you say it does, and it’s a terrible, one sided deal.

            A lot of good former Marines have made some good suggestions about small changes to make a Marine enlistment more tolerable- you casually dismiss them as “crybabies”. I casually dismiss you as a stupid, hardheaded, sycophant dinosaur that refuses to change anything. The Corps is full of hotheaded, hardheaded idiots like you. That’s why I’m glad I’m done with it and warn young people that if you join, these are the personality types that will have 24 control of your life.

            Does America need a Marine Corps? Only in a war. The rest of the world – they don’t really care about the the USMC unless they get something out of it.

            we can have this back and forth on this forum, and eventually it will devolve into personal insults, but the bottom line is is its just forum talk on the Internet. if you can’t handle people criticizing your beloved Corps, then fuck off.

          • FormerEnlisted

            I like the “let’s not have the back and forth” and you finish up with an “FU”!

            I haven’t seen many concrete suggestions to make the Corps better – just lots of bitching. So what? You really think any other organization’s going to be perfect?

            I would love to hear some good ideas on how to improve things but all I hear are complaints about the barracks or promotions or illiterate Gunnys. BFD.

            Sorry you didn’t have a great experience in the Corps..most of the rest of us did.

          • oldr

            Quit finding lazy excuses and READ the web site.

            I honestly just don’t care that you were in combat in Vietnam. If people were brutally honest, they would say exactly the same thing. It was your job at the time. My job was to support aircraft- and even your beloved Marine Corps didn’t do that as efficiently as some civilian airlines can!

            if you took one example of my supposed ‘whining’ – i.e. give boot camp recruits an option to discontinue after 10 weeks of training, then no more than 2 weeks out processing time max ( similar to options that OCS candidates get) then that would discard those who really didn’t want to be in the Corps, but then the Enlisted ranks wouldn’t have enough low paid junior enlisted wage slaves.

            The above is not whining- it just points out the self serving nature of the organisation I advise people not to join. If you don’t like that, tough ( our FU if you prefer)

            You will want to have the last word- it’s in your nature.

          • FormerEnlisted

            I honestly wouldn’t mind letting you have the last word but you’re a lot of fun to listen to! I think that I understand some of your frustration – it seems to be rooted in frustration with your MOS, mainly not being able to do the job you signed up to do.

            You think aircraft maintenance is bad now, you should have seen the nightmares we had in the late ’60s. We were just starting out with the CH-46 and our helicopter training squadron lost 11 dead in one month from the rear pylons coming off in flight. We finally got a new CO and he kicked some butt and were flying safer soon after.

            I started out as a 3531 truck driver and was sent to Vietnam to an artillery battery. After a couple of operations, I ended up on the gun crew of a 105 and weathered a tour near Dong Ha during our first operation against the NVA. Soon after, we lost all four of our FO teams and I volunteered to go out to replace one. A whole hour and a half of training and I was out with Echo 2/1 and in the middle of things.

            I watched how well the grunts did, day to day in unbelievable heat, carrying everything we needed that convinced me that the Marine Corps knew what it was doing. However goofy the training was, we had what we needed to survive and beat the enemy, day after day. I never met a grunt who wasn’t wounded at least once and it was my turn after about six months with them. After almost a year in the hospital, I was assigned to MCAS Tustin and trained wingers on the .50 caliber machine gun. (Which is where I saw our problems with the ’46)

            Did I see a lot of stupid stuff – hell yes. But I did my best to fix what I could. My experience taught me that every single one of my Marines were the best this country has.

            I got out completely to fully recover and after a couple years signed up to go to OCS and returned to Vietnam as a lieutenant. I went on from there for another 24 years. Being a former enlisted officer
            Gave me an excellent perspective on what my Marines could do and what was crap. I am proud of all of them.

            I honestly wouldn’t have ever picked the Marine Corps for a career but now I wouldn’t have picked anything else.

          • oldr

            Yep- I knew it.

            1)you are 100% wrong in your assessment in the first paragraph.

            2) You longwinded (unnecessary) Vietnam story did not address the point I made in the previous comment. I personally don’t give a shit what you did in Vietnam. I was in grade school at the time!

            3) Aircraft Maintenance ( which was not my primary role) was a nightmare before, and during our second Iraqi war in 2003 ( for the wrong reasons), and with the MV-22 the situation has not improved that much.
            4) the difference between you and me is that I didn’t like the Corps lifestyle enough to want to put any more time into it. Being smart and intelligent, I went back to Iraq to work for a military contractor for a year, and made more money in that time frame than I would make in the USMC.
            5) I stand by the fact that there are FAR BETTER opportunities out there for young people in 2015 than the CRAP the USMC has to offer.
            In your reply, don’t ramble on Vietnam, If the grunts were so great as you suggest, the bottom line is that you didn’t win the war. And before you blame it all on the politicians ( ie to cover up your own shortcomings) the politicians prevented the war from turning into WW3

          • FormerEnlisted

            If you were worried about “opportunities”, you should’ve stayed in school. The Marine Corps exists to fight enemies, not provide a “job”. But since you were both smart AND intelligent, maybe you already knew that, didn’t you?

            I consider myself very fortunate that I picked the Corps; good people, good missions, traveled the world. Never considered it just a job.

            Your ideas about the history of our war is flawed, but I’m not surprised.

          • oldr

            “the cost of the marines vs what the return is doesn’t make any sense.”

            Marine Corps exists to fight enemies, not provide a “job”.

            Damn- that strange. I saw plenty of ROAD senior enlisted and Officer ranks just going through the motions counting the days till they retire, so they could rip off the taxpayer even more. After Vietnam was over, you should have been kicked out immediately. But its always easy to thumb suck the Marine security blanket because civilian life is too hard for you huh!
            Joining the USMC was NOT a smart and intelligent decision- it was based too much on propaganda and lack of research. Getting out when I did was smart and intelligent.
            What you believe and what the statistics show about poor levels of retention shows how out of touch you really are.Take your brainwashed drivel to a Leatherneck forum.
            And lastly, to those who think they are right and know it all, and refuse to listen to opposing viewpoints, really know nothing.

          • FormerEnlisted

            Nah; you failed. You were one of those weaklings that should have been weeded out at boot camp but somehow slipped through the cracks. All of this site is a magnet for the 10 percenters who dragged everyone else down.
            But you’re “smart and intelligent” – but not enough to actually succeed at anything. Too bad – couldn’t your parents take you back?

          • oldr

            Not going to waste too much time on this moron today.

            You don’t know me, you are wrong about my time in the USMC , and my definition of life success did not involve continuing a Marine Corps career. it’s easy to blow away your petty insults with the awards I received while in the USMC and the Honorable discharges I received from both the enlisted and Officer ranks.

            And yet I still advise people not to join the USMC.

            For narrow minded simpletons like yourself, it may be hard to fathom that people can work hard, live well and have a far better quality of life without the Marine Corps. I really don’t care to prove anything to you, and stand by every contribution I have made on this site.

            The Native Indians had a belief that some people were not worth talking to. I believe that you fall into this category- because you refuse to consider any opinions other than your own narrow minded views.

            This my last comment to you, and know you will write an insulting reply to have the last word. Bask in your fleeting moment.

            But I still commend this web site, it has lasted for a while, and think it exposes the ugly truth of the active duty Marine Corps experience.

          • S.

            I created this website. I saw combat…

          • FormerEnlisted

            You won’t mind if I’m skeptical? The one thing that solidified my faith in the Marine Corps was its performance under fire. All of that rigorous nonsense and relentless training paid off a hundred times over.

          • FormerEnlisted

            If you created this website, what was your point? Most of the stuff you and others whimper about are pretty small potatoes – “we needed more money for our quarters”, ” my SNCOs were illiterate”, “the officers have it better/are stupid”… etc., etc.

            Want to talk about weapons, tactics, and operational matters – fine. But just accepting every juvenile criticism of the Marine Corps just embarrasses you and the simple souls posting their complaints.

            The Marine Corps only exists for warfare. It’s methods seem archaic and non-intuitive but success in combat is the only real criteria. We succeed.

            Did we complain a lot when I was a lance corporal? Sure. But we kept it amongst us and we did things ourselves to correct problems. It is astonishing to think of Marines with all this petty stuff out in the public eye.

          • S.

            Rape, theft, abuse of power, buddyfucking for promotion, unreasonable mass punishment, hazing, unlawful punishment, sweeping illegal activity by higher ranking people under the rug, throwing marines under the bus, arrogant demand of respect from the general population for accomplishments that one never took part in, illiterate people being responsible for other peoples lives, illiterate people causing deaths and not being held responsible, paying the enemy money, allowing the enemy to rape children, overly aggressive and borderline illegal recruiting tactics, recruiting people not fit for military duty to fill quotas, lying to possible recruits about life in the military to fill quotas, good ol boy network of higher ranking personnel, mandatory sexual positions with spouse. I can keep going if you want. And no poster on the wall is going to solve any of the above problems my friend. If you think the problems above should not be discussed publicly, then shame on you. This website is not going anywhere, and conversations like this only motivate me to grow it even bigger. I’ll pump a million dollars into this if I have to.

          • FormerEnlisted

            Pump all the money you want to – it’s a free country. I am surprised that there were so many malcontents but based on what I’ve read today, I’m willing to agree with you that our recruiting standards must have slipped.

            Your hero must be John Kerry; he collected every bogus story about our service in Vietnam and greatly aided our enemies. Good job.

          • oldr

            Actually, I was all for Jane Fonda being made Commandant of the Marine Corps
            Lets see what reaction that remark gets!

          • S.

            What a strange response…

          • FormerEnlisted

            I’m not surprised that you don’t recognize the allusion. John Kerry was a member of treasonous nitwits called the Vietnam Veterans Against the War back in the early 70s. His claim to fame was being a lieutenant in the navy’s riverine forces in Vietnam and then going home early by claiming three tiny wounds. His first action on getting home was to support the pro-enemy “peace” movement and to meet with the enemy in Paris. He gathered a bunch of disgruntled losers together (this is the comparison to your website) who invented a bunch of horrific atrocity stories and he sponsored their BS at event called the Winter Soldier. Then he presented those lies to Congress and did his bet to sabotage our efforts in Vietnam. Most of his “Vietnam veterans” had never been near Vietnam and those that were there were rear area types.
            That’s what you and your site represent: the losers, the whiners, the ten percenters. You couldn’t succeed in the Marine Corps so you gather all the others with lousy discharges, low talent, and a lack of guts and try to poison the well for those who can and do succeed as Marines. You couldn’t hack it so you’re going to waste your time and money telling everyone that the Corps was wrong and you’re right.
            The Corps has succeeded despite sad people like you and despite real problems with today’s Department of Defense and dimwit upper levels of leadership. I hope it always will. I’m proud of today’s Marines and sorry for you. You didn’t have what it took and you have to live with that.

          • fukusmc2

            It’s such a shame you didn’t get your guts blown out in Vietnam decades ago- you’d be just another statistic, but you’ d die the way you wanted.

            The people on this forum represent intelligent people who didn’t want to put up with stupidity. You wore a Marine uniform for so long- you were a government subsided idiot- so it’s hypocritical of you to slander others.

            By all means, go back on active duty and fight another dumb and pointless war on our behalf. I’m happy to watch it all on TV- maybe make some good money as a war contractor.

          • FormerEnlisted

            You’re a sad, sad little man. Not at all different from the rest of the service-avoiding, excuse-finding remainder of American “manhood”. You couldn’t hack it, so now you’ll spend the rest of your sad life telling everyone how terrible everybody was to you in the bad ‘ol Marine Corps.
            Our loss, I’m sure.

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            Attempts at character assassination rarely get points across, but I’m just as guilty of it. I had no problem “hacking it”, if by that you mean exceeding the pitifully low physical and mental standards. What I couldn’t hack was putting up with one more hypocritical self-righteous alcoholic being given preferential treatment because he had a knack for memorizing the drill manual and sucking his superior’s cock. Or, in the case of my first NCO in the fleet, being a wife beating scumbag that eventually killed his own son.


            I saw brief glimpses of what I had been looking for in the Marine Corps in units like Recon, MARSOC, and Scout Sniper detachments. The rest really was a festering heap of careerist horseshit, and attitudes like yours were definitely the norm. Any and all critiques against the Marine Corps can be dismissed out of hand with allusions to the pussification of America’s youth. That must be why the Marine Corps has an 80% turnover rate for first-time enlistees; the ones that stay in are the tough ones.

            The 80% turnover rate and the prevalence of re-enlistment based on a desire for the free food and power should be much more troubling than you’re letting on. The asset the Marine Corps has over the other branches, really it’s only edge, is the superior quality of its enlistees. The Marine Corps is also unique in that it then takes this advantage and wipes its ass with it. I can’t tell you how much it ground on me in Oki to see the airmen, who had openly enlisted for shorter terms solely for the benefits, being treated like men while we were treated and trusted worse than the Marine dependents.

            But that was then and this is now. I use this site as a means of keeping what happened to me from happening to potential enlistees down the road. That and to help out guys that are in and are facing the disillusioning reality that they’ve got a long few years ahead of them before they can get out and move on with their lives. But boy oh boy, does the meritocracy of the real world taste sweet after four years in the despotic and overly-bureaucratic dung heap of the USMC.

          • FormerEnlisted

            This, at least was a fairly temperate and coherent post – mostly. I agree with you that scumbags still prosper within the system and that the leadership has really sunk over the last couple of decades. The quality of the younger Marines has not been reduced and their performance during the most recent wars has been excellent. We agree that the quality of leadership has to be worthy of those Marines – particularly since it’s their lives that are at risk with their leader’s decisions. Where you and I differ, is that I believe that the best way to fix the Corps is to find the specific rotten actions, corrupt or incompetent leaders, and skyline them. Don’t just bitch about how poor the chow was or who picked on you, but find the people who risked lives, stole money, wrecked people’s futures or just couldn’t lead themselves to the bathroom without hurting themselves and make the IG aware of the facts. They have a hotline and they listen. The Marine Corps maintains a section within the IG that tracks and monitors dirtbags and makes sure that they are brought to justice one way or another. Sometimes you don’t see it, but it happens. I personally know of a case where a Lieutenant General was shitcanned because of his stupid stunts.
            The Marine Corps is flawed – always has been. But the best, most unselfish, bravest people I ever knew are Marines. The biggest problem we have right now is that the quality of leadership has dropped so far that the Corps isn’t the first to be sent into the fight anymore. We don’t have anything approaching valid amphibious doctrine or shipping or lighterage and we blew a Billion or more on the goofy Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle. As you seem to imply, the future is lighter, faster, and more capable but the top leaders are fixated on keeping the numbers the same so we can maintain 100 General Officer spots.
            We owe it to the country to be better than that.
            By the way that earlier comment about how “I should have had my guts blown out in Vietnam” was similar to a comment I got from an “antiwar” demonstrator back then. I was on campus just after my discharge from the Marines and I was still obviously recuperating from wounds and he said that it was “too bad they didn’t kill you”.
            Well, welcome home.

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            I wish I had been as well versed in the means of reporting negligent leadership. Unfortunately, I was in the mindset of putting my head down and pushing forward like a “tough” Marine should. The truly tough thing to do would have been to have reported everyone from the bottom to the top for negligence, hazing, and harassment. In my defense, I was an 18 year old in Oki getting hazed like everyone else without a phone, internet, or a key to my room for the first few months at my unit. I figured that that was what everyone had to deal with. Well, it’s in the past, just best to get the word out through this site how to properly request mast, the hazing orders, and how and when to contact the IG.

            I disagree that the problem is mainly individuals though; I see the main issue as the Marine Corps neglecting its enlisted. A few key changes could be made tomorrow that would go a long way towards boosting mission effectiveness and morale that have been neglected for decades because of the absolute lack in interest in the lives of anyone without rockers or shiny things on their collars. For example:

            – A fleet-wide PT program based on incentives and the tracking of progress with monthly mock P/CFTs.
            – An MOS proficiency exam factored into the promotion score that every other branch utilizes.
            – A “treat your Marines like Marines” campaign targeted at leadership, reminding them that their Marines are Marines, not disobedient children.
            – A removal of the restrictions placed on Marines on Oki in order to acknowledge that they made the difficult decision to enlist in the Marines, and so should be treated like men until they prove otherwise.

            Then there are further changes that will probably never be implemented, but which I argue for:

            – Reducing the size of the Marine Corps to a few tens of thousands, increasing the base length of the enlistment contract to five years, removing the majority of redundant support sections and focusing exclusively on combat roles; basically becoming a larger version of the British Royal Marines.
            – Using this reduced size to make initial selection much more strenuous, bringing enlisted passing rates more in-line with USMC commissioned and Royal Marine enlisted passing rates of approx. 60%.
            – Changing the requirements for commissioning to no longer requiring a bachelors degree, and commissioning much more extensively from the enlisted ranks.
            – Taking a hint from the success of the SEALs in the close relations between officers and enlisted personnel, stopping the incessant and nonsensical practices against fraternization and focusing instead on unit cohesion through camaraderie.

            You and I seem to agree on most of these points.

            I agree that some of the best men I’ve ever known were Marines, about 13 Marines from the ranks of LCpl to LtCol made me want to re-enlist over the course of my career. These guys were invariably either attracted to the elite combat arms, or they got the fuck out when the going was good.

            I’m sorry that you were mistreated when you returned from Vietnam. I’m sure that the fact that the Socialist Republic of Vietnam is one of our largest trading partners in the Pacific region probably doesn’t sit well with you either. You won’t see me saying those things.

          • FormerEnlisted

            Couldn’t find a thing that you suggested that shouldn’t immediately be put into place. It would really reenergize the Marine Corps into being a far better, more effective entity. Honestly the best set of potential solutions that I have seen on this site or really anywhere. Have to figure some way of getting these ideas – which are really the true “lessons learned” from the Marine Corp experience – into the right hands to get them done. I’m thinking maybe a Marine Corps Gazette article (if anyone reads the Gazette anymore).
            The whole reason I came back into the Marine Corps to be commissioned was that I had great experiences with most of the officers and some of the younger SNCOs in Vietnam. It was as you described it – more of a team than a top-down autocracy. We also knew that our leaders would take all the risks we did – we had a very high casualty rate with our lieutenants because they insisted on being right there with us. They also listened to our advice.
            About an hour after I graduated from boot camp in 1965, I ran into a Sergeant Major and I didn’t know what the heck to do. The Sergeant Major told me to settle down and then told me that “all Marines are of equal value. Some are rendered respect because of the responsibilities they have but all Marines rate respect because any one of us could be the most important Marine anywhere at some time”. Then he said, “let’s get a beer”. I carried that ethos with me and when I became an officer I always remembered what it was like to be a snuffy and I appreciated and respected the work and sacrifices they made.
            If things really have changed that much – and I think they have – then your ideas are the best solution to rescue the Corps.

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            My main issue has been anonymity. As I’m still using GI Bill benefits, I have no interest in pissing off some overpowered bureaucrat who could then potentially make my life difficult. In addition, I’m double majoring in STEM fields at a top 20 University right now, and really only come on here to get away from studying. If I really wanted to find the time, I would make a series of Youtube videos exploring these points, and include a series on my thoughts as to the evolution of the enlisted-commissioned dichotomy in the US military, stemming from our inheritance of a blend of the Prussian and British models of militia and professional force. It’s a very interesting and not very well explored topic.

            Some of the comments I’ve written on this site have been turned into articles, and they were pretty popular for a time. My ‘difficult for the wrong reasons’ bit got a lot of traffic, but of course nothing came of it.

            I like your idea of an article, I think I’ll try to write one out over the summer. I’ll see if they’ll accept LCpl John Smith as an author, 1234 phake street as an address, and Kingsoft instead of Microsoft format. I’ll relate it to the extremely high turnover rate, and why so many of us get out when we can. No though, I never read the Gazette after SOI.

          • FormerEnlisted

            I also agree with the anonymity: there are more than a few nutcases out there and some of the worst are at the top. Your key ideas; uniform fitness and MOS education standards, taking more of our future officers from the enlisted ranks, shrinking the size of the Corps and by implication, keeping only the most qualified are exactly what’s needed. When I talk about my time in, sometimes I make things sound idyllic but of course, they weren’t. In Vietnam we had good leaders and we had idiots. The good leaders kept us fully in the loop, took the same chances we did and were careful how we were employed. The bad leaders were easily detected and ignored. We had some really senior SNCOs back then – a few WWII vets – and honestly many of them were useless drunks. The Korean War vets were generally grim and deadly and didn’t have a lot of affection for us “young guys” but they usually carried their weight. The best were the younger NCOs and SNCOs because they were brought up in “our war” and had survived – and they knew how to balance risk and survival.
            As for now, many of the commenters on this site are upset about some pretty low-level stuff, things that could have been resolved easily with some understanding of their rights. Others have serious issues to discuss and the issues they bring up should be investigated and corrected as much as possible. It’s just hard to separate the wheat from the chaff because some of the members are almost rabid with their anger at the Corps. I don’t know how to tell them this, but all human organizations are seriously screwed up. I guess they’ll find out in time.
            The Marine Corps is not in existence for great-looking uniforms, flags, swords, 8th&I, etc. etc.; it’s here to fight and fight efficiently. Combat is organized murder and the greatest tragedy. How we organize, train, equip and prepare our young Marines to get through it and then to recover afterward is the center of where we have to be.
            Your ideas are excellent and your sense of what has to be done is correct.
            I’ll do what I can from my end.

          • freeatlastfreeatlast

            I appreciate your compliments towards my ideas, I would however caution you in your offhanded discounting of the people on this site as bellyaching over nothing. That mindset is in a large part why the Marine Corps is in such dire straits right now. When any and all criticisms can be dismissed with allusions to character flaws, no problems at the ground level get addressed. That’s why there are multi-million dollar campaigns to build amazing new SMP buildings, and to flesh them out with the latest and greatest gadgets to boost morale, when all that’s really needed is for those Marines to be treated like the men they had hoped to be challenged into being when they enlisted. When nobody listens, nothing happens, and I still see this site as a prime place from which those ideas can originate and flow out into the GP.

          • fukusmc

            Unlike others who deserve it, I am definitely NOT going to be rude to you..
            You’ve presented some good ideas here, and even if they were published in official Marine publications, I maintain a lot of skepticism about whether they would be accepted or acted upon.(Some of your suggestions are at Commandant/ Joint Chiefs level).
            You and I both know the ‘groupthink’ community that you are dealing with. As long as the culture and systems of the USMC benefit those at the top, they are not going to want to change it anytime soon. As long as there are perpetual hotheaded and hardheaded motards that refuse to accept any different philosophies other than just wanton killing without thought of consequence, then you will continue to have a string of quagmire wars which essentially have no clear result ( other than wasting taxpayer money).
            If the Corps just has a model of ‘overworking and abusing ‘ new bodies in a four plus year cycle, then continue to see the same mistakes repeated over and over again.
            Overly negative assessment -yes, but more a reflection of reality. We write of our bad experiences on this forum, and let readers decide how they want to use that information.

          • FormerEnlisted

            The problem I have is with the really virulent stuff, like the one who said that “I should have had my guts blown out” in Vietnam. There are a lot of things wrong with the Marine Corps but part of the audience has not interest in fixing them, only wrecking the Corps. Yes, we should list and address all of the wrongs that have happened – but I am much more impressed with the Marines and former Marines who want to make things right.

          • S.

            There is no hivemind here. There are many people with many different perspectives and opinions.

          • fukusmc

            I wrote that- and make no apologies for it. Go cry to mummy if your feelings are butt hurt.

            By your own admission, you were very happy to inflict death and/or pain, suffering and destruction on others in Vietnam for your self serving purposes, but whine like a baby if it happened to you?
            Write a another tit for tat comment if you want- I don’t know you, but have seen enough unbalanced Vietnam vets on Marine bases.
            For me- I did for what the Marine corps asked me to do, but did not like the underlying reasons about why the Iraqi war was started- and deliberately perpetuated. I got out for many reasons- namely because I had a problem being an occupier of a country where we weren’t wanted in a war that could have been avoided.
            And if think that equates to lack of ‘manhood’- that I wouldn’t fight against those who threatened my own community – then FU.

          • FormerEnlisted

            You’re an odd one, aren’t you.. full of anger and nastiness and hissing obscenities but there’s something missing, which makes you less than believable. I don’t believe you were anywhere near Iraq: too many inconsistencies in your attitudes and statements. I’ve met an awful lot of BS artists who claim to have been in a war but were making it up – you sound like one of those. You definitely don’t sound like someone who’s been in combat.
            I never claimed to be “happy to inflict death and/or pain, suffering and destruction on others” – that’s one you made up all on your own. You sound more like one of those ’60s “antiwar” demonstrators with your odd phraseology. I’ll give you a small hint; people who have been in a combat zone are fully involved in keeping themselves and others alive and don’t have any time left all to reflect on “inflicting death and/or pain”. Combat involves short, vicious firefights involving you and a few people to the right or left of you and most of the time, you don’t even see the enemy. Most of your time is spent carefully listening and watching for what the enemy has waiting for you. You sound like you watched too many movies with your “crazed Vietnam Veteran” shtick. That used to a fixture of the movies and TV program of ’70s and ’80s (“Rambo”, et al).
            If you had actually been in Iraq or Afghanistan, you wouldn’t be spouting those goofy clichés like being “occupiers” and “armed bullies”. One more hint: nobody who has ever seen people around them killed by their enemies ever develops sympathy for them. Respect, possibly, eventually after time but during a war, no. I’m sorry, but I don’t believe you.

          • fukusmc

            Your opinions and beliefs rate about as high as whale shit in the ocean- what matters is proof and documentation on forms like a DD214.

            No one asked for any description on an outdated and irrelevant conflict that ended over 40 years ago.

            Your answers are a reflection of your arrogance, ‘instant expert’ syndrome and an inflated sense of your self importance.

          • FormerEnlisted

            Still, you weren’t in Iraq, were you?
            The BS flag is on the field…

          • fukusmc123

            Happy to press your buttons, plus bring back old memories!
            Your definition of “manhood” ie going to foreign countries and committing murder under the guise of LIES from the United States government, is far more sad and pathetic than any accusation you could level at me.
            My time in Iraq woke me to the fact that a real man stands up for what he believes in, and carrying a weapon around to bully others into submission is a reflection of moral weakness.
            This is the Internet, and we can insult each other as much as we want. The Corps doesn’t miss me- it doesn’t miss you either btw, and I don’t miss it.
            Come on, give us another ‘I don’t care- insult’ again. Your falling on deaf ears on this forum.

          • FormerEnlisted

            I love the “carrying weapons and bullying people” horsehockey. How much “bullying” went on in Ramadi and Fallujah and all of al Anbar for that matter? For a guy claiming time in Iraq, you’re sounding a little false, if you don’t mind me saying so. You seem to miss the point that going places with weapons is what Marines do – and if all goes well, beating the snot out of them. What did you think the Marines did – dress blues and parading around?

            You are correct: it is the Internet and nobody can make you be anything but what you are.

            You are also correct that the Corps doesn’t miss any of us. With luck they have replaced us well.

          • SPOII

            As a Marine and a recruiter on top of that it makes me laugh to read all of this crap. I served for 9 years to include combat. Since my EAS I have worked for local government and corporations, and in both sectors I have seen the exact same things you are saying is wrong with the Corps. It happens everywhere. Affirmative action is a law so sick it up.

            As a recruiter people would tell me “I would never join the Marines because I don’t want somebody telling me what to do all the time” I would tell them “don’t put onions on my burger” unless you live on an island by yourself somebody somewhere is going to tell you weekday to do. If you don’t like it buy a box of straws and sick it up.

          • oldr

            And you are one of those IDIOT Marines who only believed there were two options in life- the Marine Corps or Burger King!
            Well, we all know that NOT to be true! Yeah, in civilian businesses and government agencies there are a lot of problems SIMILAR to what you see in the USMC, but his list is more focused on the UNIQUELY MARINE CORPS problems involving the 24 hour control, warfighting ( and all the horrible sides of human nature that comes from it). You could not be that STUPID to see that there is a difference?
            Yes, there is always going to be someone you are accountable to, but the key difference is the level of control they really have over your life. You can always quit a civilian job if you hate it that much, and you have a degree of power to file complaints against unfair treatment and work practices.
            And you know what? There are exciting and creative ways that you can strive to live “off the grid” or at least establish a very independent form of lifestyle. After having worked for a greedy and corrupt corporation that treats its employees like disposable trash ( sounds like the Marine Corps!) an off the grid lifestyle is far more appealing than working as a wage and mortgage slave!
            Hell- I once knew of one older Marine veteran who actually went back to Vietnam to live out his days in a remote village! He made connections so the local government officials would leave him alone, and the last I ever heard from him he spent his days fishing, hunting, growing his own food etc etc.
            That sounds far better than working in a cubicle all day doesn’t it?

          • S.

            Burger King does not own you. If your boss hazes you, you sue the shit out of him, the company, and put him in jail. Dumbass.

          • Ex Noctis

            All the above reasons is why I hated it and got out. Good post.

          • oldr

            “The Marine Corps only exists for warfare”
            Oh really? Your so focused on reliving your past days in Vietnam that you have not kept up with the times have you?
            The Corps now is a place where women can feel a lot better about themselves, perform to minimal standards, and have more MOS’s available too them JUST BECUASE THEY ARE WOMEN!
            The Corps is far more concerned with making sure its ‘children’ fill out ORM forms before doing normal things- like driving somewhere on the weekend. funny how a 17 year old civilian can do exactly the same thing without the meaningless and unnecessary paperwork!
            I can go on. The Corps doesn’t exist for warfare these days. As a prison-like government agency, it ensures its inmates follow all the politically correct agendas!

          • S.

            The corps is just a cosmetic for the american military at this point. As an entrepreneur I look at it this way, the cost of the marines vs what the return is doesnt make anysense. We need to trim the fat.

          • oldr

            We are like minded people on a like minded forum, but your assessment is intelligent and sensible. “Trimming the fat” is long overdue.

          • Chris

            FormerEnlisted said: “Did we complain a lot when I was a lance corporal? Sure. But we kept it amongst us and we did things ourselves to correct problems.”
            Okay, but that doesn’t work when a SNCO lets Marines get hurt on the job for no reason. In my last 18 months (of 5 years) I was the Safety Manager for an engineering bn. One of the welders was injured via temporary blindness due to exposure as a result of the shop having an ancient mask.
            I told the SNCO (yes, TOLD, not respectfully requested) he had to order a modern mask. He refused, but made sure the shop had hundreds of rolls of toilet paper. 3 weeks later he left, and that was the day the mask was ordered.
            Now, how is “LCpl’s complaining amongst themselves to fix the problem” going to fix that kind of idiocy and weak leadership? How does it restore the health of that welder’s eyes?
            It doesn’t.

          • FormerEnlisted

            I’m surprised that your SNCO was able to block a valid safety request for better welding masks. Did you request those better masks in writing as the Safety Manager? Usually nobody dares get in the way of a written request.
            Was there an investigation of that Marine’s injuries? Regs require a Line of Duty/Misconduct investigation each time a Marine is injured. If those injuries were sustained even though a valid safety request was made, heads will roll.
            Even Lance Corporals are not powerless in the system – just have make sure that complaints are on paper.

          • fukusmc

            How pathetic coming from YOU Former Enlisted! Based on your previous posts, where you casually dismissed such complaints coming from the “losers, whiners 10 per centers” I bet you would have casually disregarded a legitimate complaint like this to make it more convenient for a self serving piece of shit like yourself.

            You just reaffirmed what this web site is about- junior ranks like LCpls standing up for their rights, which you previously dismissed as whining!

            You exemplify all the turds I ever saw in the Marine Corps. When it’s not convenient for you, you take the lazy way out by criticising those who complain. You’ll only do the right thing when your backed into a corner by paperwork.

            FormerEnlisted- what a complete and utter lying two faced shithead you are! No wonder you wore a Marine uniform for so long!

          • FormerEnlisted

            The fun part of your noise is that you are exposing your inability to cope. Most, probably 95% of all Marines understood that things would be screwed up but dealt with problems by figuring out how to get things fixed. Sometimes that meant taking initiative and maybe some risk and dealing with a jerk one-on-one. Other times it meant getting a real swine in front of a Court-Martial.
            The whole big transition to adulthood is 1. knowing that anything filled with human beings is going to be imperfect and 2. Solving problems as they come up.
            P.S.: your “potty mouth” makes you seem all worldly and grown up. Really.

          • fukusmc

            The ‘holier than thou’ comeback. Really.
            You have yet to demonstrate these ‘adult’ type responses here, and your fellow officer clowns have yet to learn these points.
            You may grow up one day and see the bigger picture- but I doubt it.

          • FormerEnlisted

            Really? How do see a “bigger picture” than four years enlisted, then twenty three years commissioned? I spent my whole time working to be as proficient as possible and fixing as much as possible. When I saw garbage being done when I was a Lance Corporal and Corporal and Sergeant, I went through the chain to get things improved, including Requesting Mast when it became necessary. When I was a Platoon Commander I kept the training up and the chicken stuff down and got the job done. The idiots were always there – when I was a Battalion Commander, my Regiment Commander was a screaming jerk and I had to spend most of my time protecting my battalion from his craziness. My budget was cut over and over and there were times when I had to pay for work on the barracks or to fix the TVs or to buy diapers for my Marines’ kids while their Dads were deployed out of my own pocket. All of this doesn’t change the essential fact of the Marine Corps: it is the best combat unit anywhere because of the Marines in it, not because of the excellence of all the leaders. The Marine Corps will only be worthwhile if we all work at fixing what’s wrong when we see it, even if it means risking ourselves and our careers.

          • fukusmc

            Well, run around in circles like an idiot then jump on a grenade- you just reaffirmed why this web site exists and why it is popular.

            Just because you decided to put up with such retarded BS that Marines do is your problem- not ours. Working for a civilian company, I make more money, have more workplace rights, and have far more autonomy than in the USMC. Nothing is ever perfect, but I don’t have to put up with some of the ridiculousness of working in the worst branch of the Armed Forces.

            We inform young people about the truth (and consequences) of signing an enlistment contract. The more intelligent will heed this- the stupid won’t.

            Your adult principles don’t apply so well in what amounts to Uncle Sams kindergarten with guns.

            Now go back to the VFW and complain there, because no one here cares about what you ve done.

          • Chris

            FormerEnlisted – Yes, since he needed at least 1 day BEQ my report went to Regiment.
            That SSgt felt the Safety Office should buy the mask, and that it not come out of his toilet paper fund. I swear, I’m not making this up.
            The point is that he didn’t care. They could have taken preventive action that involved ensuring top-quality gear, but the odds are that the SSGT acting as purchasing manager for the Construction Shop had no clue about welding, and couldn’t have given a crap less about the welfare of his troops.

          • Chris

            Ha, I said “BEQ” but meant “SIQ.”
            I guess 9 years of college knocks some of the useless things we know out of the system.

          • FormerEnlisted

            I guess that I’m not familiar with the organization of the engineers but didn’t you have a platoon commander? Staff Sergeants have their responsibilities but the officers are on the hook for safety and accident prevention. If your Marine was injured, wasn’t that injury reported? Was it investigated?

          • FormerEnlisted

            I’ve a couple of days to think about it and I have to say that I’ve changed my mind about your site: you’re providing a service to the Marine Corps. In fact, if I were the Commandant, I’d probably even propose helping you fund this site.
            Any potential recruit that was driven away by the stories posted on this site almost certainly would not have strength to make it against the adversities that you and I know are part and parcel of the Marine Corps.
            Any Marine that accepts your help in getting discharged, should be discharged – for his good and the good of the Marine Corps. Your service can provide a safety valve, so to speak to help those not suited for this life and its endless hardships – I mean “challenges”.
            Your help in getting questions answered, help delivered is an excellent service – so keep up the good work.
            I Take back my earlier comparisons to John Kerry. John Kerry and his VVAW betrayed all of us. You are cranky, bitter and maybe annoying but you are doing good. Whether you mean to or not.

          • S.

            I’ve always said “If someone joins despite knowing everything we tell them, they belong in the corps”.

          • FormerEnlisted

            Or, more likely those of us who function well in the Corps have the mental set to do well in combat or other tough duty and adjust to the dysfunctional parts. The Corps isn’t for everyone but that’s basically what you’re saying.
            Despite your unhappiness with our Corps, it’s still the same outfit that has fought so well over all these years. I used to visit the wounded at Bethesda during the height of the Iraq War and they were solid young people – very proud of them..

          • S.

            Plenty of people here went to war, including myself, and did just fine. It’s the bullshit the marine corps pulls when you get back, that doesnt have anything to do with preparing somebody for war that most the people here are unhappy with.

            Are you in love with us or something? If you dislike this community so much… why do you keep coming back? I am starting to think you are a closet case.

    • replyto idiot

      Good thing that I’m not President, because if I was the first thing I would do is completely stop government retirement payments for all the old, useless has been’s like yourself, and completely halt all your VA benefits!
      You know why? Because the government is next to BROKE! So why should the tax burden be placed on younger generations so payments can be made to aging people who are just waiting to die anyway?
      This will save money so as to relieve the already heavy financial burden on those age 30 and below. Then I’d force anyone over say 68 ( 18 plus 50 High School Reunions) to be EUTHANISED! It would balance the country’s population pyramid!
      You have a responsibility to DIE so as to save us government money so the next generations have the same chances you did!

      • FormerEnlisted

        You’re funny – you have about as much to be President as you have to make meritorious Corporal.
        Good luck euthanizing me – a whiner like you couldn’t touch me, old or not!

    • Derik

      You sound like a stupid SNCO

    • Derik

      I bet you walked uphill to chow both ways too didn’t you

    • Robt

      Amen brother, I was a 90’s Marine, I’ve seen all the above bullshit myself, but I sucked it up and made myself a better person because of it. Sounds like the Marines we are getting these days are just a product of this pussy generation we live in, with some exceptions

      • Billiam201

        Of course, that must be it. It couldn’t possibly be weak, ineffectual leadership.

        When you spend your days chanting “lead by example” while utterly refusing to do so yourself (claiming that “rank has its privileges”) you get a rank-and-file that will quickly realize that you are full of shit.

        And the marines will spend an untold amount of energy and money attempting to figure out why 4 out of 5 marines would rather put their balls in a bench vise than reenlist.

        The NCO ranks have no idea what they are doing, but get promoted by running fast and looking good in a uniform. Their actual ability to do their jobs is a detail in the promotion system, and they wonder why their corporals are clueless, their sergeants borderline brain dead, and the SNCOs functionally illiterate.

        So every marine with an IQ bigger than his hat size can’t be bothered to consider another term.

      • oldr

        That’s funny- I was a 90’s Marine myself, but I think this website serves a very useful purpose in highlighting the stupidity and incompetence that some Marines on active duty are capable of. No organization is above criticism, so why should a government branch of the DoD be the exception?
        Of course complaining about cleaning the barracks is childish whining, but making Marines clean the barracks all night with nothing but a toothbrush ( and simple green if they are lucky) while the POS NCO (who is forcing them to do it) sits on his ass and drinks beer- then brags to his peers about how great he is- IS A VERY LEGITIMATE COMPLAINT THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED!
        I don’t particularly care for political correctness and some of the stupid BS that has crept into modern day America, but I’m not going to write off an entire generation of so called ‘pussies’ just because they are intelligent enough to realize that that being forced to do nonsensical, stupid and timewasting shit is exactly that- and aren’t afraid to speak up and say so.
        Based on my own experience in the 90’s Marine Corps, there weren’t as many petty regulations as they insist on piling onto the backs of Junior Marines now ( in the last 10 years). Making up 10 more rules doesn’t necessarily solve the problem. I experienced some bad NCO’s in the early 90’s, but they tended to be ‘corrected’ by their peers when they started to get too extreme.
        from the stories I read here, it seems that sense of temperament, emotional intelligence and basic justice is what’s lacking.
        Just because you put up with doing absurd things (like being forced to clean the outside of building on a rainy day in Okinawa just because a new team leader wants to go on a power trip) doesn’t make you ‘hard’ – its tends to reflect your ‘sheep’ mentality.

  • fat assit

    The Balls are a waste of time. Why do unit require Marines and family to cough up hundreds of dollars to get drunk…only to have every Marine and Sailor a week later sit in some boring ass class about how drinking too much is bad lol.


      This is the shit I hate. You joined the Marine Corps to inherit our traditions and history. ITS YOUR FUCKING BIRTHDAY THAT YOU CHOSE TO HAVE WHEN YOU GOT THAT EAGLE GLOBE AND ANCHOR. Cough up hundreds of dollars? Money comes and goes, our traditions do not. And those classes are for Marines who don’t know how to limit their intake. Gtfo.

      • this guy

        At the last ball I went to, a bootenant lit the candle on the POW table with his lighter. The candle exploded and almost set the table on fire. Nobody moved to put it out because the Marines hymn was playing; most of them were too drunk to have gotten there quickly anyways. I ran over to put it out along with the photographer for the ball. We both got there at the same time, I looked at him, he looked at me, and he took a picture. Balls are bullshit.

      • He Devil

        I think complaints about the Balls are quite legitimate. If the USMC insists that each unit has a mandatory Ball every year to celebrate the Birthday ( as opposed to just having the cake cutting ceremony and special formation- then a Ball EVERY 2 YEARS!) then why not have the complete cost of the Birthday Ball be funded by the Units budget?
        Every year, it essentially falls onto the backs of the Marines in that unit to fund a Ball ( doing Car washes gets frigging old) so its not surprising that those who get paid the least hate the fact they are forced to go( plus all the other ridiculous restrictions placed on them!)
        That tradition would disappear overnight if there was some fairness in the system and each Officer ( plus Senior NCO’s) were forced to contribute say 50% of their take home pay for three months to fund the cost of that damn BALL! The higher ups are very happy to financially exploit the Marines in their unit for their own ‘prestige’ – and don’t forget that the USMC has been very willing to discard ‘traditions’ when it was to their benefit to do so.
        Gtfo- well haven’t you figured out that’s exactly what INTELLIGENT people do? Then stupid She-Devil Jarheads wonder why there isn’t enough bodies to do the work required, and the high turnover rate essentially means more workplace problems?
        Your answer pretty much nailed why us veterans think the Corps is a PIECE OF SHIT that isn’t worth the sacrifice! BECAUSE WE’RE MARINES AND WE REFUSE TO LISTEN OR CHANGE!
        Semper FU

      • Billiam201
  • Esprit De Corps

    “14. Mass punishments: Because if a marine goes off base, gets drunk and assaults a cab driver, it’s somehow my fault for not knowing that he was going to do that and preventing him.”

    Surely you know mass punishments are to teach the offender the consequences of his actions…if he fucks up it’s his buddies who get killed. And if you’re the one who will be killed, then it’s your responsibility to make sure he doesn’t fuck up.

    • FukdeCorps

      Surely Shit-for-brains, mass punishments are just used as another tool for dipshit USMC leaders to exert their own (punk) ass level of enforced conformity, control and mindless obedience!
      I guess your the type that loves to be punished for nothing- a weak, pathetic coward; brainless little BITCH who gets off on being dominated!
      You fit the perfect description of an ACTIVE DUTY MARINE!
      Do the world a favor- just yell OHHRAHH and jump on a grenade! One less moron in the world.

    • Billiam201

      That sounds like the kind of reliance on mob justice that is the hallmark of weak leadership.

      If you can’t lead them on your own, force them to turn on each other. That way they will never figure out how full of shit you actually are.

    • Rich Jimenez

      This alone is why I got out after 4 years. I couldn’t take making sure I did everything down to wearing a belt out in town, only to be screwed with because some chronic drunk got a PI yet again. If I’m doing the right thing, how in the world would I even be in the same place as someone messing up to stop him? That’d require me to be in the wrong too. Your last sentence is basically saying we’re at the mercy of how much someone cares about others. Logic fail.

  • E4shortTimer

    3. Threw them in the trash as soon as I got them.

  • jcw

    #22 should be #1 on the list. The core of the culture problem that is turning the Marine Corps into something else is what was mentioned there briefly. The Military in general has become a safe paycheck for many turds who would be doing nothing if they weren’t enlisted. Not everyone should be give the option to re-up. Prove to be proficient and useful and you can stay. (pay those types to do so) If you have turds, flush them. Elite players want to play with other elite players right? The Marine Corps shouldn’t be any different. Successful people want to be around and surround themselves with like minded and driven people. Cut the dead weight and you will retain good Marines.
    I am very grateful for my 5 years in the Marine Corps. I got what I needed, learned a lot about myself and its made me a better man I believe. I have no regrets, I don’t hate the Marine Corps at all. I accidentally stumbled upon this site….. catchy name so I took a look. Sounds like a lot of whining about shit that has been going on for years. The list made me laugh a little. #22 caught my attention because I vehemently agree. I think this is the biggest problem that is compromising the Marine Corps as a whole. Getting Married for housing money is a scam and a joke. It adds to the ridiculous divorce rates and makes the Military look even worse for endorsing it.

  • Papasan Pauly

    You have a list? Everyone knows what’s wrong with the Marine Corps … the Marine Corps where you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Semper Fi 🙂

  • Fuckthisshit

    #24 If you have rank you can say and do whatever you want to someone lower in rank, and if they talk back or try to argue throw them on a working party for disrespecting someone higher in rank.

    • akabitchell

      or you can make them stand duty the entire week, when they leave for a month long field op on saturday, and make them do a bullshit powerpoint class on customs and courtesies

      • 3rdMdiv

        Duty has always been used as a punishment, or as petty retaliation by those in leadership against subordinates they don’t like. Why the Corps still maintains that duty must be stood in Charlie Uniform is stupid beyond words- cammies has always made more sense.
        I do recall though, that there are regs against unreasonable or excessive duty hours. But since when did regulations ever get in the way of some assh*le SNCO who wants to manipulate the rules?
        If you think about it, the contract you sign condemns you to submitting to be a Marine “24 hours a day/7 days a week”. effectively, they could work you every day, and make you perform the work of a minimum wage security guard after hours.
        Another stupid asinine way the Corps approaches duty is the ‘layering’ approach if they feel like being particularly malicious. In one building they could have 3 people on duty, but to screw more Marines, insist they have two every floor!
        On top of all the other bs regulations, duty was another reason I was happy to get out. Of course it is needed, but it means you could never be 100% sure you could plan anything on a weekend. The work schedule wasn’t reasonable or reliable enough.
        Are young kids ever, ever going to get the message that joining the Marine Corps is nothing but a waste of time, and submitting be a slave laborer?

  • CharlieSecaucus39012

    Helpful ideas ! Apropos , if your company is requiring a PD F 1048 E , We came across a fillable form here

  • Buzz

    I’m finally retired! THANK GOD!

    • Billiam201

      Good for you, and enjoy your post-suck living experience.

    • Chris

      Buzz, congratulations! What are your plans? Some downtime and school? Got another career lined up?

  • Wavenstein

    #12 What do you mean by the “fucking homeboy”?

    • Vinson Parkhill

      A kaffir.

    • aomechmarine

      Dude… You KNOW EXACTLYwhat the fuck he means… and you know What?… Its NOT a race thing… because I DEFINITELY saw this shit with black Marines, Latino Marines.. and then good ole’ country boys who’s pappies raised them wit wcertain ideas about them darker green Marines…

  • Kyle

    This is one BS site.

    • guest

      Poor baby can’t handle criticism of his beloved Corps!


        Wrong answer, and I really don’t like name calling, but since you started it, let me join in and call you “poor turd merchant”. Does that work for you? So…moving fwd, “guest” aka PTM, did you earn the title Marine, serve honorably, and we’re not a PTM on active duty? If so, then thank you for your service, and be advised that I do raise the BS flag on the USMC, when things are FUBAR.

        • MARINEWTI

          Did it on AD, AND I do to now. But here’s the “real deal”…if you PTM, and all the others on this BS site think the USMC is FUBAR, do take a look at the other mil services. The USMC, can’t hold a candle to how FUBAR the leadership is in the doggies, squids, and airdales are. Look up Ronald A Gray and Hasan Akbar are. Two convicted Army killers who were sentenced to death, and are still mooching off taxpayers.

    • Billiam201

      Can I assume that you have something to refute ANY of the points laid out here?


        You a Marine? Were you ever a Marine? Did you serve honorably?

        • Billiam201

          No. Yes. Yes.

          So am I to assume that the extent of your rebuttal is “other services are screwed up too”?

          Well, that may be true.

          I’ll point out that I have yet to see a headline of an Army sergeant major assaulting a protester.

          Or an Air Force drill sergeant stuffing his recruits into a clothes dryer.

          How about a sailor court-martialed for abusing his recruits?

          Bad apples happen in every barrel. This, on the other hand is a pervasive culture of abuse.

          But I guess that’s not important is it?

          How about the fact that the army manages to get their job done, while the marines spin their wheels and try desperately to get out of their own way


        Read my comments below to “guest” who you will see was christened “PTM”. As stated, the USMC may have issues, but FUBAR is most certainly a truism for the other mil services.

    • Steven Cool

      Agreed not saying some bitching is legit but what I noticed is usually the one bitching is someone who can’t take the responsibility of their own actions when I was I was court Martial for something I did no one else was held responsible after doing my punishment my captain came to me thanked me for not acting like it was the corps fault and said as long as it didn’t happen again I would get my rank back shortly and never hear it again now I know my situation isn’t everyone’s experience but there are a lot that blame everyone but themselves take responsibility

      • John Smith

        I know someone like that who got kicked out for repeatedly getting in trouble who blames everyone else for his problems. He got out and got in trouble some more. He’s pushing 40 going on 12. If you don’t agree with him he bad mouths you and tells lies. He referred to USMC as u suck more cock. Then he called me a pussy because I was in the Navy so then I called him out on getting kicked out for drugs. He still won’t take responsibility for what he did and blames everyone else. At least I served my time and got an honorable discharge. There’s a lot more, but you get the point. People who are mentally unstable or get into trouble shouldn’t go into the Marines, it makes it worse. I don’t hate the Marines, but they have a bad culture and from what I’ve seen its only getting worse.The real problem is the brainwashing that goes on which happens in other branches, but not nearly to the extent of the Marines, unfortunately. They need to get more intelligent people but it’s the dumb asses that couldn’t get by in the real world that go in, unfortunately it leaves them more fucked up when they get out.


    WTFO? Provided input to someone who

    • guest

      Well- the poor baby couldn’t handle criticism of his beloved Corps!


        Not to worry snowflake.

    • Master LCpl

      I am running this site. Can I help you with something?

    • Phrogs forever

      Oh really MARINEWTI! I spent 4 years in the Army and didn’t deal with 1/5th the arrogant stupidity as I have in the Marine Corps. You’re a brainwashed, naive individual who understands very little. I’ve worked alongside Airforce personnel who were a hell of a lot more professional than many Marines I’ve worked with.

      Now the Corps is under investigation for a huge sex scandal!……….REALLY? Not to mention several courts marshalls underway for a Musilum recruit who killed him self because the D.I’s were hazing him. Plus the Marine Corps crashing an MV-22 in Okinawa in December because of poor maintenance practices! Do I need to say more because I can go on and on and on!

      It’s because of dickheads like you is why the Corps is fucked up! Chocking on your pride!


        HEY limp wrist…

        • Billiam201

          My my. My ears bleed from such salty talk.

          In all seriousness, do you actually have anything at all to refutell even a single claim made by anyone here?

          Anything at all?

          On the off chance you do, please feel free to post it.

          Otherwise, crawl back under your red-and-gold bridge, little troll and stop wasting everyone’s time.

          • MARINEWTI

            The truth hearts, doesn’t it snow flake. 🙂

          • Billiam201

            Snowflake, huh?

            I’m not the one chasing down people who I know will disagree with me, spouting butthurt nonsense, and refusing to provide information when directly asked for it.

            Sounds like you’re the snowflake here.

            Nowe go be a whiny little bitch somewhere else.

            Grownups are talking.

          • MARINEWTI
          • Master LCpl

            Just curious MARINEWTI. When did you serve?

          • MARINEWTI

            80s-90s. And u?

          • Master LCpl

            OK. Now more specifically, what years did you serve? How many total years did you accumulate during your career in the corpse?


        U don’t know squat about professional. What work do u do? Meter maid. U work alongside


        HEY…Joe Shit the Ragman…were u ever in the mil or are like all the other snowflakes out there…FUBAR.

    • Don

      Dude, I’m a right wing nationalist to the core, (CORE, not CORPS,) and I can see that they have a point. This isn’t a left-right thing, it’s a meritocracy-corruption thing. Politics don’t have to be involved. I would have liked to see Mattis take steps to fix this shit, but it looks like that isn’t going to happen, which is sad.

  • Dark Laughter

    This is actually a pretty good list. Any heartburn if I use it for a discussion of Marine Corps reform with some senior Marines?

    • Master LCpl

      Not at all. That is what this site is for. Just remember to let them know where you found your list. Maybe then, if they do some additional reading, things may begin to change for the better but we all know that is some serious wishful thinking.

      Safety and Peace

  • John Boy

    I am new, but I don’t know what the acronyms mean. Is there a guide?

    • Chris Pascale

      CAR: Combat Action Ribbon, an award often given for having been shot at and shooting back. There are other circumstances that merit it, but that’s the simplest explanation.
      NAM: Navy-Marine Corps Achievement Medal. Received by President Kennedy when he saved another sailor from drowning and then evaded capture over the course of several days. It’s also received by young marines I knew for supervising 1 construction project, and I once witnessed an awards ceremony where a staff sergeant received it for having been a recruiter, and a lieutenant received it for bringing his platoon through a mandatory training exercise called CAX (Combined Arms eXercise) before deploying.
      GTFO: Get The Fuck Out, as in some people get married to GTFO the barracks, and others are counting down the days until they GTFO the Corps.
      EAS: End of Active Service – the day you GTFO!
      NCO: Non-Commissioned Officer; Corporals and Sergeants.
      SNCO: Staff NCO; Staff Sergeant up to Sergeant Major.


    Did it on AD, AND I do it now. But here’s the “real deal”…if you PTM, and all the others on this BS site think the USMC is FUBAR, do take a look at the other mil services. The USMC, can’t hold a candle to how FUBAR the leadership is in the doggies, squids, and airdales are. Look up who Ronald A Gray and Hasan Akbar are. Two convicted Army killers who were sentenced to death, and are still mooching off taxpayers. Look what happened to Pat Tillman…Army lied. Look up Army generals Sinclair, Haight, Grigsby. Look up the Army POS muslim murderer Hasan. The Army non-leaders failed. So…yes, the USMC may have issues, but the other mil services are REALLY, repeat, REALLY FUBAR.

    • Idris

      What about lee Harvey Oswald the man who shot president Kennedy what about Danny Greene a Irish mobster, what about Eddie ray routh the man who shot Chris Kyle. Come on man really that’s all of the rebuttals you have what about the Colonel from camp lejeune who was charged with sexual assault to a child under the age of 16 what about the ribbon creek incident in 1951 where the recruits drowning to death
      I could no on. No the usmc is still the most FUBAR branch around.


        Do ur homework nimrod. I only listed a few of the MANY offenses that the other services have on record. The other services have MANY more pervs and killers.

        • Idris

          Lol I listed the few offenses the corps has as well. one of them I was apart of. The corps has way more killers, Pervs,rapist and even sadists than you think as well. I did my homework all I mentioned is factual and true.

          • MARINEWTI

            YO…Joe Shmuckatelli…if u did ur homework…why no capital “C” in Corps? How do spell LOSER!

          • Billiam201


            Because that obsolete, decrepit organization is undeserving of the simple gesture of respect signified by a capital letter.

          • Idris

            Your really not making any sense now your just trolling. I didn’t Do my homework because I didn’t capitalize the c in corps?seriously? And on top of that, you lost a skiing video? You must be really bored

  • AG

    What sets the USMC apart is it’s culture. That extra bit of aggression and military bearing. However, much of that culture is toxic. It has a tendency to produce sociopaths and emboldened ‘heathens’ if you will. The USMC is highly hypocritical, preaching discipline, integrity, honor, but are the least in all of these categories in and out of uniform. They are the only branch that an American citizen must worry about in regard to possibly destroying their children who enlist. Witnessing the repeated production of garbage bar trash from the USMC over the course of my life, their predation on society, their farce of brotherhood which is immediately violated at boot camp then beyond, leads me to the conclusion that they should be disbanded. The Navy needs a restart on this particular element and needs to tend to it from within it’s own culture and mission. We don’t need two ‘armies’, and the Army produces a more sober, respectable, product. If one were to argue that the other branches don’t offer enough ‘kill, kill’ aggression, they are arguing that the armed services are largely ineffective. If there are areas that could use some improvement in regard to warrior mindset, that can be addressed, but not via the ignorant approach of the USMC. Remove this institution of predators, sociopaths, and seditious characters from our great country. It was a good effort, many great service members, but the culture is out of control and it’s extremism is akin to ISIS if you think about it carefully. The armed services should produce noble warriors and the USMC is way off target.

    • Wavenstein

      I got out in 07 and from what read here and elsewhere it seems that the toxic culture has somehow gotten worse.

      • don

        Like you would not believe. Got out in 14 and Amos made garrison even MORE miserable, combined with drowning units in a waterfall of paperwork. It was a fucking nightmare. No idea how it is now.

        • Brandon

          I’m still in and boy, I’ve got 2 years left and it’s gotten so bad I’m honestly trying to find any way to get out early with an honorable discharge

  • Justice_Honor

    How about the fact that a unit commander can falsify government documents to have a Marine’s clearance revoked? Or how about how that commander can also put an illegal 12 month nonrec on you for simply being recommended for medical separation? Fuck you for being hurt, even though you managed to finish PME under my own orders, fuck you, you’ll never see the promotion you earned!

    • On non-recs, I finished engineering school with a guy who was dedicated, but didn’t quite fit the mold. We were both lances in Iraq and one night on watch I told him, “hey man, when it’s time for you to get promoted, they’re not going to let it happen. What you need to do is request a duty station change upon re-enlistment, and take as much leave as you can. That way you don’t fall under anyone’s leadership when your cutting score hits [I don’t know if this is true, but it is what I said]. Do that for Corporal at three years, then Sergeant at six.”

      Last I talked to him he was moving from our line unit to the construction shop, and the CO there told him, “it would be disrespectful of me to Captain NutFace to put you through for promotion after he’s non-rec’d you all this time, so I’m non-reccing you, too.”

      I just looked him up, and am happy to see he has a job, friends, and a life of his own.

    • Quityourbitchin

      Your injured and cant perform the job and uphold the standards due to injury I wouldnt promote either.

  • imaprisoner

    the biggest problem im finding in my time is the absolute power and control of a nco/snco over junior enlisted they have no limits to how much they can control your personal life so if you get one higher rank that dosn’t like you they will make your life like living in a literal prison. does anyone know where any limits of power the nco/snco can be found?

    • Partisan Pat

      Completely agree. Not only does that apply, but also there are privileges that you’ll get if you do attain the rank. For examples, I saw lances get 4.2/4.2, and corporals who were maybe about as good getting 4.5/4.5. No good reason, really. I knew a group of NCOs who didn’t like a particular lance so they screwed him on the pros/cons while making fun of his accent; he was hispanic. Meanwhile, a marine they liked who didn’t have as high of scores, and generally was their tool for fool-ass shit was put on a board for corporal, fed the answers, and that was that.

      The lance got out as a bitter corporal, who now runs his family’s business. The fool-ass corporal is now a gunny; just googled him.

    • Worst Decision I’ve ever Made.

      As a corporal I see this all the time. Even my NCO’s who outrank me think of me as a Lance because I don’t bully the Lance Corporals and below. Its such a shame that its high school 2.0 with people who have no decency towards others. Reasons why I’m getting out and discourage others from joining. Its what we call “a shit show”.

  • Ed Godwin

    I know this is a Marine Corps page. But you pointed out a lot of things that happen in the Army too. Leadership seems to be missing in both. I did, however appreciate the piss poor leadership I had at times, it showed me what not to do! I hope things get better for both services, but that will be up to you guys that are still serving. Charlie Mike!

  • E5actual

    11. Exactly how people got roles in movies in 2017 so yeah we are in the 21st century.

    • Billiam201

      Am I to suppose that your position is that this behavior is proper?

  • Billybobjoemomma

    I have to be honest, as an Army vet, I’m actually shocked Marines can read or write. AT EASE!!!!

    • Billiam201

      That’s why most of us got out.


  • James

    Or how about a Drill Instructor can separate you into RSP just because they don’t like you. (Happened with some friends of mine and myself as well. Going to the army now and am hoping they don’t have the same bullshit.”

  • Criminalcorps

    Have you guys ever had to work with some piece of shit human that got a DUI (on base, no civdiv police involved), 2 drunk assaults on the duty, smoked weed, “alleged” sexual assault, and it all got brushed under the rug? Im at a small active duty section of a reserve unit and all of the SNCOs and officers have his back because he said he was suicidal and now it’s all dropped and he’s acting totally normal, like a lazy piece of shit. He received one minor njp over all of that and got 30 days restriction, which he couldn’t even do. He missed the first 20 days of check ins and still went out in town. And guess what? Nothing. How the fuck am i suppose to not want to beat the shit out of him? Better yet how am i suppose to respect my superiors and the corps now. This is “honor, courage, commitment”? I just shouldnt do anything because apparently there are no rules.

    • Billiam201

      Actually yes, my roommate in Okitraz.

      In fact, because this guy ran fast and looked good in his Charlies, he got meritoriously promoted.

      It lasted 11 days because, his head particularly swollen from his meritorious promotion, he forced his way into the home of a officer who was TAD back in the states, and sexually assaulted the officers wife.

      In the end, after NCIS got involved, he ended up being busted for underage drinking, so the command wouldn’t have to admit that a sexual assault had occurred.

  • Debildonut

    This list is pretty true, but I don’t think #11 is much of an issue unless you’re one of those who get easily offended.

    • It’s just a weak thing to say. If it’s a true fact, fine, but just about all women in the military hit their cutting scores the same as the men. They may get to do a flex arm hang instead of pull-ups, and 3 minutes added to their 3-mile run, but to equate that they are not only able to trade sex for a slight pay raise, but that they are enthusiastically doing so, is often repeated by pathetic losers who spread hate, lies, and discontent to distract from their own obvious flaws.